Jeshibu on 22/4/2020 at 10:08
Quote Posted by icemann
Well I've always been on the side that one has to prove guilt, rather than innocence. I get that society seems to have flipped that in recent years.
I'd link the video that Boogie put up several months ago, where he went into detail on it but it's since been deleted.
I used to think like you on this. But think about what you're saying. Say Person X has somehow been a complete monster to you. So you go public with chatlogs and corroborating evidence from his own public videos. But that's not good enough, because Person X makes a video in reply where he blatantly lies and deflects what he can't lie about.
Now there's me, the third party, looking at all this. Who do I believe? Am I forbidden from believing the person who has documented evidence of Person X being a shit? Why?
If Boogie is documented to be a manipulator of people, then it sounds pretty likely to me that his counter-video was full of shit too, and that's why he removed it.
Group harassment of people happens, but if multiple independent people come forward without a shared nefarious goal, that's a lot of smoke for there to purportedly be no fire.
Thirith on 22/4/2020 at 12:07
So his words from YouTube mean everything but other people's words on reddit mean nothing.
It's up to you to just say, as you did at the end, that you enjoy his videos and that's enough for you. But then perhaps don't do that spiel first about society having flipped, when you've made your mind up beforehand as to who is right and who is wrong.
Jeshibu on 22/4/2020 at 12:26
Quote Posted by icemann
If he had done horrible things, he'd have been arrested which he hasn't.
You do realize there are things that are bad but not illegal to do?
Quote Posted by icemann
As for things said, he suffers from mental illness due to a severely fucked up childhood. So if you take as gospel words said, when suffering from illness then we're all damned. Boogie has shown in some of his own videos of the messed up things he's said. If I remember right, he has bipolar, depression and anxiety. In life I've had quite a bit of dealings with people with mental illness + my wife suffers from half the stuff he has, so I don't take seriously words alone.
Mental illness can explain (episodes of) treating others poorly, but does not excuse it. If someone has a punches-you-in-the-face disease they'd damn well better apologize every time and work on bettering themselves, or find themselves friendless pretty soon.
Quote Posted by icemann
For me words, etc from reddit mean nothing.
How about screenshots and archived tweets/comments? Have you seen (
https://www.reddit.com/r/SamandTolki/comments/ajzm5h/the_hidden_truth_boogie_doesnt_want_you_to_know/) these at all, or are you just dismissing them sight unseen?
Quote Posted by icemann
He's innocent until proven otherwise. Your welcome to believe otherwise.
Your standards for proof are extremely forgiving towards those you like. You seem to think that a court of law is the only standard by which anyone can be proven guilty of anything, and even then I'm not sure you wouldn't say it was a witch hunt.
Quote Posted by icemann
I enjoy his videos and that's enough for me.
Enjoying his videos is fair, but exculpating someone over how much you like their work is weird.
Jeshibu on 22/4/2020 at 15:27
Quote Posted by icemann
That was the particular reddit thread Boogie spoke about in that deleted video if I remember right. I don't tend to read articles on Youtuber's. I just go by what I see in the videos they put out. That's not me dismissing what your saying. Just stating how I do things.
THAT IS YOU DISMISSING IT WITHOUT SEEING IT. THAT MIGHT BE HOW YOU DO THINGS BUT THAT IS VERY MUCH YOU DISMISSING IT WITHOUT SEEING IT. HELLO? Do you regularly actively avoid information on a topic to then declare yourself staunchly in favor of a specific side after hearing only that side's argument?
Quote Posted by icemann
For example, JonTron, whose videos I really like due to their complete randomness, said some anti-immigrant stuff (apparently) on a guest spot on some other program. It has nothing to do with the videos he puts out, so it is what it is. Should he have said those things? Well he has the right to free speech, whether it's nice or not. I like his videos so I just enjoy them for what they are. If that makes me weird or whatever meh that's fine.
Jontron sure did say some racist anti-immigrant stuff. It's absolutely fine if you still like his work. But this is somehow distinct from Boogie in that you're not declaring him innocent without having seen anything of the incident.
Quote Posted by icemann
As for my innocent until guilty approach, well that's just me. There was a thread a while ago, on the me 2 movement and of accused people etc, and I stated my views in detail over there.
Your opinion can be divorced from legal outcomes! You don't have to believe that OJ Simpson is innocent, or that Issei Sagawa deserves to be free, or that Harvey Weinstein or Kevin Spacey deserve the benefit of your doubt. You can make up your own mind about these things. If you always choose to side with the accused, so be it.
Jeshibu on 22/4/2020 at 15:51
Okay I give up, there's no getting through
Sulphur on 22/4/2020 at 17:33
I have plenty of sympathy for people with mental issues; but like Jesh says, having mental issues doesn't mean their actions can be excused or waved away. Boogiewhatever's obviously functioning well enough to seek help and not act out, but if he hasn't,
that's on him. I know at least two people with borderline psychosis, bipolar disorder and all the concomitant issues that go with those, and they chose to find qualified therapists of their own volition. That's the reason I'm friends with them to begin with: despite everything, they're self-aware, and exercised a choice to make things better.
Acknowledging you have a problem and then not doing anything about it makes you far worse of a person than someone who can't see it to begin with.
Quote Posted by icemann
This is one of those cases, where your not going to be satisfied unless I read through it all extensively and then state my side after reading it, and I'm telling you that I'm not going to do that. If that makes me a weirdo or whatever, then meh fine.
It doesn't make you a weirdo that you're switching half of your brain off. I'll leave the obvious conclusion as to what that means for those who don't.
june gloom on 22/4/2020 at 18:26
Oh, are we defending Boogie1488 in this thread then? I see we're playing the "separate the art from the artist" game with JonTron too.
This thread doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
Renault on 22/4/2020 at 18:54
Because TTLG is just evil, right?
june gloom on 22/4/2020 at 19:05
Yeah, you got me, why else would I post here?
WingedKagouti on 22/4/2020 at 20:08
Quote Posted by icemann
If he had done horrible things, he'd have been arrested which he hasn't.
That might be how things work in cop dramas, but it's not how things works in the real world.
Not only does a victim need to file a report with the police, the police also has to believe the victim. This can have varying levels of success depending on where you are in the world (down to individual precincts), which specific officer is spoken to and how the victim (friend/whoever) presents themselves. Then
if the story is believed, the officer has to make an evaluation on the seriousness of the offense, whether a repeat is likely, how hard it would be gather enough evidence, whether the precinct has the resources to go after the case (or if other cases would take precedence before this case gets too old to pursue), what effect a visit from the police would have on the offender. And if something doesn't fall into place, the case is likely to get dropped (possibly with an apology to the victim).
And that's assuming the victim can name the offender and isn't too scared of some sort of backlash to go to the police.