WhiteFantom on 12/4/2007 at 02:51
I've been running a Vista/XP dual boot for a couple of months now as I move everything over to Vista and check compatibility, and I've only just now gotten to installing the Thief games in Vista. I have Thief 2 running just fine (to my great surprise and vast relief), but in the process I discovered that my on-board audio doesn't support EAX (I do actually have a SoundBlaster Live! card, which has worked beatifully for seven years now, but alas, Creative has no plans to make Vista drivers for it, so it's useless to my Vista system and I've had to make do with the AC/97 audio on my motherboard).
I've resigned myself to having to go ahead and buy a new sound card, but after checking into my options, I'm a bit worried. I have my eyes on the Creative X-Fi Extreme Gamer, but a blurb on Creative's website caused me to have quite a lot of second thoughts: "The Vista audio architecture disables DirectSound 3D hardware acceleration; resulting in legacy DirectSound based EAX game titles not working as they did in XP." They go on to say that "these issues cannot be addressed by the Creative audio driver, because the functionality was purposely removed by the operating system. We look forward to game titles moving away from DirectSound and toward OpenAL for fully optimized Creative 3D audio hardware and technology support." In other words, if you have a game that uses legacy DirectSound for EAX, you're screwed--no 3D sound for you.
However--I've been seeing people in these forums refer to using X-Fi cards for Thief games, in some cases on Vista systems, without mention of the lack of EAX support (which I would think would be a major sticking point). I did find one thread that gave instructions on getting an X-Fi card to support EAX in Vista, but it involved downloading ALchemy drivers and manually fiddling with several things. While I'm glad there's at least one known way to make this work, is this the ONLY way anyone has gotten EAX to work on X-Fi cards under Vista? Is there a simpler way? Has anyone tried that method (with the ALchemy drivers and fiddling) and *not* gotten EAX to work?
$80 isn't really a huge sum of money in the long run, but it's more than I'm willing to blindly gamble on something that may ultimately not even accomplish the very thing I'm trying to accomplish in buying a new sound card in the first place. Any input, personal experience, directions to relevant posts or FAQ's, etc. would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
--Jennifer
Twist on 12/4/2007 at 03:17
Check out (
http://preview.creativelabs.com/alchemy/default.aspx) Alchemy.
Basically, this is Creative's attempt to emulate DirectSound with OpenAL. I don't have Vista, but I've heard it works pretty well and they're improving it all the time.
That site and this (
http://forums.creative.com/creativelabs/board/message?board.id=Vista&message.id=5009) FAQ may answer your questions better than anyone can on this forum.
Do share the results of your activities with this stuff. I'm curious as I plan to use Vista when I build my new system in August. :erm: *gulp*
Edit: My understanding is that many more games work than just the ones they list in that FAQ. The FAQ just lists the games they officially and actively support with their products right now, and they intend to expand it.
To answer your question more directly, as you'll learn from these sites, no there isn't another way around this limitation in Vista. :(
imperialreign on 12/4/2007 at 04:03
Quote:
To answer your question more directly, as you'll learn from these sites, no there isn't another way around this limitation in Vista.
. . . yet. Where there's a WIN, there's a way. Someone will find the needed loophole and exploit it.
As for the X-Fi, I can understand that $80 is defi something one doesn't want to throw at a system that wouldn't even half support the cards capbilities, as I ran a Creative Live! card for years, too (and an SBPro16 prior to that) . . . best of luck, though!
balthazor on 12/4/2007 at 17:52
Vista removes the ability of programs to use DirectSound or DirectSound3D calls, which would normally go straight to the hardware. The only way programs can directly access sound hardware is through 3rd party interfaces - OpenAL being the only one I know of.
ALchemy makes older DirectSound calls use OpenAL to allow hardware acceleration; otherwise, even if you have an X-Fi card, the audio processing is done in software by the OS and the hardware is just used to produce the sound.
But ALchemy is really easy; basically once you install the root program you just copy two files into the root game directory (you have to do this for each individual game.) And that is about it.
The two files are simply a .dll file that does the directsound->OpenAL conversion, and a .ini file that allows for tweaking that game's Audio settings. For Thief: The Dark Project there is a setting you have to modify to get it working flawlessly, but even on defaults it will work all right. Modifying a setting is easy as changing a number using notepad. This is mentioned in my running Thief on Vista post at
(
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112669)
Some games are included in the ALchemy application and don't require this manual copying method. These 'included games' just allow you to open the ALchemy application, click on a game, and 'transmute' the game, which is just copying the two files to the appropriate game location. Thief is not among these 'included' games, but work just fine using the manual method.
It should also be pointed out that ALchemy is not a background application; the application itself is merely an easy way to copy the necessary files into your game directory. The instructions are easy to read, and a dsound.log file is generated within the game directory that tells you if there are errors.
There will be no other way to get hardware accelerated audio in DirectSound games. And without hardware acceleration you won't get EAX, which sucks if you are used to it.
Newer sound cards or drivers won't be able to work around this limitation, since it is a Vista-enforced restriction. It's really sucky, and Microsoft's reasoning for doing it seems pretty lame (they say it is for security; I say what security flaw has been caused by DirectSound calls?) Maybe Creative didn't pony up the bucks to M$ or something during the Vista design conference.
I've been using ALchemy and X-Fi for older games for the last month and a half, and its worked pretty well (Opposing Force, Myth 3, Warcraft 3, Icewind Dale 2, and now Thief.)
john9818a on 20/3/2008 at 07:51
When I first started playing Thief 2 on my new Vista machine, both the on-board audio and my old SB Audigy 2 cards gave mono sound. I couldn't stand hearing every sound coming from dead center. I bought an X-Fi Extreme Gamer card and added the Alchemy software, and now can gladly hear everything from where it originates from. There is a difference of audio quality/depth/clarity between the Audigy 2 and the X-Fi Extreme cards. If anyone is playing Thief without EAX then you are missing something big.
smithpd on 23/3/2008 at 00:19
Quote Posted by john9818a
If anyone is playing Thief without EAX then you are missing something big.
I have an X-Fi but not Vista. I much prefer it without EAX. To me, EAX sounds unnatural, like reverb in a tin can. To each his own.
There is another reason to get an X-Fi. It has better sound than previous generations of Creative cards. Better for music, and better for games. The old SB cards sound terrible in comparison if you have good quality speakers or headphones. Not to mention the old crackles.
Raen on 31/12/2008 at 02:09
I have Vista and an X-Fi card and am using ALchemy to restore EAX. It mostly works, but with ALchemy enabled, I get no sound during any cutscenes or briefings. The cutscenes/briefings work fine without it. Are there any known issues with current X-Fi drivers, ALchemy, and/or Indeo Codecs?
