Gingerbread Man on 2/8/2007 at 21:38
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
If the ships in Starship Troopers had giant knives mounted on them, and the troops won cash prizes for every bug they killed, I'm pretty sure most people would have accepted it as satire.
Do you seriously not think Starship Troopers is obvious satire, savagely accurate and even more topical now than when it was written? Because that seems to me the same as saying King Kong isn't a romance.
I know you don't think satire has to be funny or wildly over-the-top.
Al_B on 2/8/2007 at 22:02
The problem (if you want to call it that) is that Starship Troopers is just too close to other films that take themselves seriously. The news broadcasts in Starship Troopers are obviously satire - the gung-ho marine attitude and the psychic corp units are played to extremes.
It's not the best film of all time, but it's enjoyable if you're willing to turn your brain off for a couple of hours. This thread is about the worst film ever made. I would vote "Wing Commander" far above "Starship Troopers" in that category.
ZylonBane on 2/8/2007 at 23:03
Quote Posted by Gingerbread Man
Do you seriously not think Starship Troopers is obvious satire, savagely accurate and even more topical now than when it was written?
Yes. I do not think Starship Troopers is satire (or at least, successful satire). For all my ranting on this subject, my reasoning boils down to two simple rules:
1. Satire must be smarter than its subject matter.
2. Satire must be stupider than its subject matter.
I should probably explain that. To satirize something, you must first understand it. After all, how can you properly satirize a subject unless you first understand it well enough to properly deconstruct it? And once you understand it, you must use exaggeration to draw attention to the points you wish to satirize. Otherwise, you'll end up with something indistinguishable from what you're hoping to satirize.
Starship Troopers fails on both these points. First, it is not smarter than its subject matter. Rather, it's an exceptionally dumb film.
It's dumb in ways that cannot possibly have any satirical target. There is no part of ST that comes across as intelligently-written science fiction or war drama.
Second, ST isn't notably exaggerated in its stupidity. It's exactly as dumb as every other action film that Hollywood churns out, which are already pretty much exercises in self-parody. Intent alone isn't sufficient to establish satire.
So that's why Starship Troopers isn't satire. Which is a shame, because it's not as if Mr. Verhoeven is incapable of creating good satire. Robocop was a brilliant satire of corporate politics, which somehow also managed to portray memorable characters and action sequences. Robocop was serious in parts, silly in other parts, but unlike ST it never felt
dumb.
OPE
POE
Gingerbread Man on 2/8/2007 at 23:10
Oh, I get it. You think Verhoeven did a shitty job of adapting the Heinlein.
I'm still not convinced, though. I can't comprehend how you'd realise Robocop was satire but not Starship Troopers.
Aerothorn on 2/8/2007 at 23:12
Oh, look, another semantics debate!
For what it's worth, yeah, I always think of Robocop and Starship Troppers as brothers-in-satire, though admittedly I haven't seen the latter since it came out.
ZylonBane on 2/8/2007 at 23:14
Quote Posted by Gingerbread Man
Oh, I get it. You think Verhoeven did a shitty job of adapting the Heinlein.
No, I don't think you do get it. Starship Troopers comes across as irritatingly stupid from end to end. By attempting to satirize everything, it ended up satirizing nothing.
And I've never read the book. I'm assuming that the failed satirical targets of ST were the usual anti-war targets-- xenophobia, incompetence, jingoism, yadda yadda. And frankly,
Blackadder Goes Forth did a better job of it.
Gingerbread Man on 2/8/2007 at 23:20
Well, there are comedies I don't think are funny, so I guess there's probably satire that you don't think meet your criteria.
None of which changes the fact that in the same way as the Three Stooges is comedy whether I "get it" or not (or whether I think it's funny or not -- something I figured was the hallmark of a comedy), Starship Troopers is satire that you don't "get".
Starship Troopers isn't much of a good movie, satire or not. So it doesn't really make a difference to me.
DaveW on 3/8/2007 at 00:59
Am I the only one who just watched Starship Troopers and enjoyed it for being an alright action movie? :erg:
Scots Taffer on 3/8/2007 at 01:03
Nope. It's classic popcorn fun.
Harvester on 3/8/2007 at 02:10
Alright, back on topic, I've never seen classic bad movies like Manos: The Hands of Fate, but Little Man was pretty terrible, and so was Epic Movie. Even Dude, Where's My Car is a hallmark of comedy compared to those movies.
Also, the previous night I saw Mr. and Mrs. Smith for the second time. It bored the crap out of me, as it did the first time. Simon Kinberg is such a terrible hack screenwriter... They really should've found someone else to write X-Men 3.
