PigLick on 25/7/2006 at 16:16
even ninjas cry.
Hier on 25/7/2006 at 16:24
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
In other words, if you want to bring it don't cry when you realise you just started on a ninja.
LOL, I like. :thumb:
It's true that Strontium is being ridiculously one-sided; giving justifications and defence for the actions of Hezbollah (and in another thread, half-justifying Iraq's invasion of Kuwait) while demonizing Israel's responses. That's generally the politically-correct approach; Israel and America are evil and no matter who is doing what, as long as they oppose Israel or America then there is some level of justification to their actions.
When Israel is dealing with people perfectly happy to strap nail bombs to their children and send them into crowded bus terminals, it's kind of impossible for any of us (those of us living in "safe" countries) to relate to that kind of pressure. I cannot find fault with Israel wanting to meet force with force.
But I do think the response of some would be different if Hezbollah were hiding in American or British cities, and Israel was flinging rockets into heavily populated sections of London or New York. There comes a point where the ends do
not justify the level of civilian casualities. Yes, the terrorists hide behind human shields, but that isn't a justification for shooting the shield. While I generally don't have a problem with Israel's actions in defending itself against Palestinian suicide bombers, I do think this latest action has gone way too far. They are using these latest attacks and abductions as an excuse to eradicate a long-standing threat, but they aren't being too careful in doing so. Your Liverpool / Man-U analogy only works if half a dozen innocent bystanders were beat up as a direct result of both soccer fans' actions.
Anyway, sorry if I've rehashed whatever's been said in this thread. I skimmed it, but didn't read everything. 9 pages, too much.
Chimpy Chompy on 25/7/2006 at 16:30
I ain't justifying Hezbollah. They're a bunch of fuckwits bringing misery on the Lebanese for the sake of some last scrap of land Israel still claims.
SD on 25/7/2006 at 17:52
Quote Posted by Hier
It's true that Strontium is being ridiculously one-sided; giving justifications and defence for the actions of Hezbollah (and in another thread, half-justifying Iraq's invasion of Kuwait) while demonizing Israel's responses.
Could you back that up with the quotes of mine that suggest I am justifying Hezbollah's actions? Let me give you a few of my quotes from this thread to help you out a little:
(
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1479222#post1479222) Hezbollah will be rubbing their hands with glee... [t]he last thing these people want is peace
(
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1481260#post1481260) There are no good guys in this conflict.
(
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1482110#post1482110) I'm not for one moment questioning Israel's basic right to retaliate against Hezbollah.
Might I also suggest you look up the meaning of the term "one-sided" in a dictionary? And then, perhaps, never post in this forum again.
Goldmoon Dawn on 25/7/2006 at 18:39
Quote Posted by Jason Moyer
b.) There has never been a country called Palestine, and the current people who call themselves Palestinians are refugees from Egypt and Jordan.
You could almost hear Strontium running to Wikipedia.
C'mon, StD, you *know* SE ain't on no Ignore, didst thou see his last post? Why quit just when it is getting good???
-back to lurksville i go-
tungsten on 25/7/2006 at 19:15
Strontium Dog, in a (vast) majority of people that say "blue" is right, you will be considered as completely "yellow" (and one-sided) if you try to look at the situation in a neutral "yellow-and-blue"-way. If only because you will have to stress the yellow points because they're drowned in the blue ones.
Sadly, not what you say, but what your listeners understand (and think you say) is what counts in human communication. For me, this is one of the most frustrating principles, because it means you have to adjust your way of speaking to your audience, and if you want to change something in democracy that level will be rather low (I'm not even talking about our commchat level :p). Forget the fine points of rhetorics and exactness :(
paloalto on 25/7/2006 at 19:50
Quote:
Funnily enough, while Israel has killed ten times as many civilians as it has Hezbollah militia, Hezbollah has actually killed fewer civilians than it has killed soldiers. But don't let the facts get in the way of a good argument!
Lets kindly tell Hezbollah not to store weapons in civilian houses or fire rockets from Lebanese neighborhoods or use ambulances to get around.Just how are they supposed to prosecute an effective war against an entrenched
terrorist organization?
I guess their supposed to scout out each house and kindly ask if there are any terrorists at home.
And what is a proportionate response mean?It means going in year after year after year of them building up and knocking them down.
I also find that giving away free food and aiding the poor and then using them for cannon fodder is a bit disingenuous.
Lebanon and the UN for six years was supposed to do something about Hezbollah and they did nothing as usual.
And if your enemy has more fire power than you and you continue to attack,it doesn't give you ethical points for using inaccurate shoddy missiles.
The intent is still to harm.
And the European Union not recognizing Hez as a terrorist organization?
Nah.If you recognize something as a problem you have to do something about it.something which Europe is not prepared to do.
TheGreatGodPan on 25/7/2006 at 20:28
This isn't specifically to rag on Stronts (no real need for another person doing this), but this comment is sort of inspired by a comment of his he just re-posted. People sometimes try to one-up the "kill those fuckers!" hawks by saying "but that's what they REALLY want!". Come on. Terrorists aren't people with reverse moralities who rejoice at the death of every innocent. They mostly like when the kaffir dies and don't mind as much as we do when one of their people bites it. Their goal is not to make Muslims really angry (what a bizzaro universe that would be like) by having bombs dropped on them. If they could press a button that would prevent military action being taken against them, they'd do it every time. That doesn't mean that military action is always a good idea, because the world isn't zero-sum. A hell of a lot of situations are win-win or lose-lose, but assuming they have to be win-lose/lose-win generally results in lose-lose.
Printer's Devil on 25/7/2006 at 20:34
Quote Posted by PigLick
even ninjas cry.
Yeah, but they're
stealthy tears, so they don't count.
metal dawn on 25/7/2006 at 22:38
Cowpie Diplomacy
