Zygoptera on 22/7/2006 at 00:22
Quote Posted by paloalto
Which really kind of negates democratic reform in the ME when a terrorist organization can move in and call the shots.
Many, if not most, of Israel's PMs up until the eighties were members- many high ranking- of either the Stern Gang/Lehi or Irgun. Decide for yourself whether terrorists can make good democratic leaders, or not.
The situation with Hezbollah/ Lebanon is much the same as with Hamas/ the PA. Any attempt to shut them down would create a civil war, and they are simply not willing to do that for Israel's benefit. Frankly, considering Israel's previous actions in Lebanon it's doubtful that even the Christian elements of the Lebanese army would actually fight Hezbollah- we already have various political and military figures in Lebanon saying the regular army would fight
alongside Hezbollah if Israel invades.
aguywhoplaysthief on 22/7/2006 at 02:36
I find it rather odd that people think it's okay to vote for and support a party that supports and funds terrorism just because they provide free stuff. We heard this as an excuse for Palestinians voting for Hamas, and we're hearing it again with Hezbollah.
Any citizen who uses that criteria as a basis for voting for such a party is a danger to themselves and others, and I don't see how anyone can excuse it. If you voted for a terrorist group, you voted for a terrorist group - that's the bottom line. You knew damn well what the results would be.
Quote Posted by Just so BR##### didn't miss it.
I wonder why so many people seem to take satisfaction in believing that little Israeli girls with felt markers in their hands - not weapons, but felt markers - are evil, or spawned by an evil society. I wonder how those people would feel if Israelis were to look at a photo of a Palestinian child wearing a mock suicide belt in a Hamas demonstration and conclude that all Palestinians - nay, all Arabs - are evil.
And I wonder why it is so difficult to think a little, to get it into our heads that television news and photojournalism manipulate our thoughts and emotions.
Printer's Devil on 22/7/2006 at 04:46
People don't like to think because someone might call them a nerd (and hurt their feelings). Still, the intractable nature of Middle Eastern politics, and the resulting conflicts, must be a terrible psychological pressure for the average person living there--even when the rockets aren't flying.
Frikkinjerk on 22/7/2006 at 07:46
Quote Posted by Strontium Dog
thoroughly harrowing
The USA needs to withdraw its unconditional support for Israel ASAP. Israel has lost the plot completely, and it knows it can keep getting away with murder so long as it's backed up by the biggest bollocks on the planet.
We invaded Iraq
twice for less than what Israel is doing.
Israel is a client terrorist state for the U.S. - our strong man in the middle east to keep our foot in the door in that region. That's why we give them over 3 billion a year in aid, more than half of which they spend on their military, and the rest goes to whatever the hell they feel like spending it on. Meanwhile, the Palestinians they are oppressing get a mere few hundred million, of which all of it must be spent on civil infrastructure. These are an impoverished people who live in the ghettos cut off from the world outside their cantons by the Israelis, who constantly victimize them. Israeli's leave trip-bombs in neighborhoods where children live, bulldoze homes, destroy farmland, continue to steal land for settlements, bomb civilian centers, etc... Is that what the Israeli's learned from the Holocaust: How best to victimize other people? Anyone remember that American girl who was killed by an Israeli bulldozer set to demolish homes when she tried to protest? It only made headline news because she was American, but they kill, or otherwise victimize Palestinians every day and it goes unnoticed by the world at large.
No one ever talks about Israel's (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordechai_Vanunu) illegal nuclear program - which includes targeting the U.S., or how they've attacked U.S. troops, unprovoked and with (
http://www.ussliberty.org/report/report.pdf) casualties at least twice, or how they spy on us, or any of the "evil" shit they do that we blow up about when other countries are the ones commiting it.
No, the dirt-poor, rock-tossing Palestinians whose land was stolen by the British in 1916 and given to the Zionist's are the terrorists. Israel is just a shining beacon of love, mercy, freedom, and democracy.
jay pettitt on 22/7/2006 at 09:48
Quote Posted by aguywhoplaysthief
I find it rather odd that people think it's okay to vote for and support a party that supports and funds terrorism just because they provide free stuff...
...If you voted for a terrorist group, you voted for a terrorist group - that's the bottom line. You knew damn well what the results would be.
I'm sure there are one or two people who find the kinds of people and institutions you and I might support and vote for a bit odd. A few wackos will even use it as half-baked justification for blowing people up.
SD on 22/7/2006 at 10:45
Quote Posted by aguywhoplaysthief
I find it rather odd that people think it's okay to vote for and support a party that supports and funds terrorism just because they provide free stuff. We heard this as an excuse for Palestinians voting for Hamas, and we're hearing it again with Hezbollah.
Interesting that you seemingly have no problem with Israel's terror tactics, though!
Hezbollah are not viewed as a terrorist organisation by the people that support them. They're seen as a legitimate resistance organisation - quite reasonably so, I might add. Interestingly enough, while the usual suspects (UK, US, Israel etc) proscribe Hezbollah as a terrorist organisation, the European Union does not.
However you view Hezbollah, it's hard to censure them when Israel is behaving with just as much disregard for human life, if not more. I don't know about you, but I look for higher standards of behaviour from my governments than Israel has displayed.
Tocky on 22/7/2006 at 17:11
Just some questions for the Al Jazeera only info crowd:
So Israel is supposed to just bend over and take it when suicide bombers, missles, kidnappings etc. happen?
Maybe they should send them money without the stipulation that it be used for infrastructure so they can buy weapons to better attack them?
How can the Palestinians be cut off from the outside world when Jordan covers half of thier territory?
When nothing short of your own destruction will satisfy your neighbors do you kill yourself?
I'm not saying what Israel is doing now will help the situation but I will say if everyone will abide by the original borders (ha ha yes I know Israel doesn't have one because to you they don't exist you one sided shits) without viva la resistance lets go blow somebody up while Israel has pulled back to it's border then it would be hella easier to relate to thier plight. I don't think the majority of US and UK like this present situation where Israel is a lion that gets poked buy its neighbors until it gets up and starts slaughtering disproportionately but should we starve it until the pokes kill it?
Legitimate resistance my ass. What Israel is doing now legitimizes it but that's cart before the horse. They pulled out in 2000 remember?
SD on 22/7/2006 at 18:04
Quote Posted by Tocky
Just some questions for the Al Jazeera only info crowd
You mean those of us who get our updates from more sources than just Fox News, right?
Quote:
So Israel is supposed to just bend over and take it when suicide bombers, missles, kidnappings etc. happen?
Nobody's saying Israel cannot respond to attacks made against it, but indiscriminately bombing and shelling southern Lebanon is hardly a proportionate response to two soldiers being captured is it?
Quote:
Legitimate resistance my ass. What Israel is doing now legitimizes it but that's cart before the horse. They pulled out in 2000 remember?
Last time I looked, Israel was still occupying territory that wasn't theirs, including Shebaa Farms, which is Lebanese. So, no, they haven't pulled out at all; they've pulled out enough for people like yourself to swallow their line, and they've pulled enough to ensure that they maintain a hostile presence capable of provoking people like Hezbollah into action.
SubJeff on 22/7/2006 at 18:20
As far as I know Israel isn't occupying any of Lebanon as per the internationally recognised borders.
And this isn't indiscriminate bombing is it?
SD on 22/7/2006 at 18:55
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
As far as I know Israel isn't occupying any of Lebanon as per the internationally recognised borders.
That's right, the UN sees Shebaa Farms as part of the Golan Heights, and thus not covered by UNSCR 425, despite protests from Lebanon
and Syria that the area is part of Lebanon.
Quote:
And this isn't indiscriminate bombing is it?
Oh, you mean they meant to bomb those hospitals, and they meant to kill those children? :joke:
[(
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5205658.stm) Even the British are criticising Israel now]
