Owl2 on 31/8/2023 at 09:55
Hello, thanks both of you!
I am also fighting the HUD elements currently, its a matter of tweaking it really. Also a subjective matter. I am in favor of my context menu and people with bad eye side will need it that big! I need to have a think about this. I am definitly not a fan of key combinations just to interact with a door. The game is already so complex that most people wont understand it. Thief is a complex game and desperatly need to be dumbed down so that more people can understand it. :/
Thirith on 31/8/2023 at 10:55
But you're adding complexity by allowing for different ways to open a door. If that's a choice you make, the question then becomes: what's the best way to represent that complexity. The ‘dumbed-down' version would be to ask how much it actually adds to offer all these options, and to consider taking some out.
Owl2 on 31/8/2023 at 10:59
Quote Posted by Thirith
But you're adding complexity by allowing for different ways to open a door. If that's a choice you make, the question then becomes: what's the best way to represent that complexity. The ‘dumbed-down' version would be to ask how much it actually adds to offer all these options, and to consider taking some out.
This complexity is easily approachable tho. Compared to the chain of keys you need to press just to make a door open quietly! And about how many of these do we really talk, its just the doors and chests so far. I dont think this is such a big problemo!
Sulphur on 31/8/2023 at 11:12
Fair point on preference - obviously, if you feel one way's better, it's your game.
Preference aside though, talking about complexity: assuming you don't click on a door to open the menu (which is an additional action), a context menu requires two points of interaction - scrolling the menu, and pressing the confirmation button. A keypress modifier combo requires the same - Shift for 'quick action', and then the interact button. It's quicker, easier, but also more opaque because there's no tooltip telling you how to do it. I contend that this can be dealt with by how the game onboards players in its tutorial and teaches them the mechanics, because in any event a Thief-like game is usually a combination of intuitive movement and things that you need to learn and remember. But that's just my opinion, of course.
Owl2 on 31/8/2023 at 11:16
Quote Posted by Sulphur
Fair point on preference - obviously, if you feel one way's better, it's your game.
Preference aside though, talking about complexity: assuming you don't click on a door to open it (which is an additional action), a context menu requires two points of interaction - scrolling the menu, and pressing the confirmation button. A keypress modifier combo requires the same - Shift for 'quick action', and then the interact button. It's quicker, easier, but also more opaque because there's no tooltip telling you how to do it. I contend that this can be dealt with by how the game onboards players in its tutorial and teaches them the mechanics, because in any event a Thief-like game is usually a combination of intuitive movement and things that you need to learn and remember. But that's just my opinion, of course.
I respect yo alls opinions ofc!
This interaction already triggered me to add a slider to the game that changes the size of the interaction menu. And i made the black parts more transparent.
I am always open for cool new ideas :) So keep it up.
Sulphur on 31/8/2023 at 11:22
It's not like you can't implement both. :cool:
(I think the menu's readable for what it is.)
Briareos H on 31/8/2023 at 11:23
I can't think of an implementation on this in recent times (at least outside of VR) but I've always loved how the old Amnesia games handled doors and cabinets where you needed continuous mouse motion to control very precisely the position and movement speed of the physical entity.
henke on 31/8/2023 at 12:31
It just so happens I've also been tinkering with one of these first person framework thingys for the past year, and I do use the Amnesia method for door interactions. :)
Seeing Owl2's demo inspired me to get back to it. I'm gonna try to make some kinda playable build soon.
btw, I do like Sulph's idea of a having the walk-speed-modifier-key also modify how fast you open doors. Feels intuitive.
Thirith on 31/8/2023 at 12:37
I remember some games using the mouse wheel for either the one (walk speed) or the other (opening doors).
Owl2 on 31/8/2023 at 12:51
Quote Posted by Briareos H
I can't think of an implementation on this in recent times (at least outside of VR) but I've always loved how the old Amnesia games handled doors and cabinets where you needed continuous mouse motion to control very precisely the position and movement speed of the physical entity.
I feelm that will bite each other heavily and i did play Amnesia the bunker.
Quote Posted by henke
It just so happens I've also been tinkering with one of these first person framework thingys for the past year, and I do use the Amnesia method for door interactions. :)
Seeing Owl2's demo inspired me to get back to it. I'm gonna try to make some kinda playable build soon.
btw, I do like Sulph's idea of a having the walk-speed-modifier-key also modify how fast you open doors. Feels intuitive.
Fire in the hole!!!
Quote Posted by Thirith
I remember some games using the mouse wheel for either the one (walk speed) or the other (opening doors).
Splinter cell!
<3 i love you all