Kurgan on 3/4/2010 at 00:03
Hey guys,
(Note: Yep, looked through the FAQ first. This wasn't covered) :)
I really don't want to mess with Windows 7's "compatibility" feature, since it's a resource hogging virtualization (bizarre choice to go that way), but I need to update my laptop, which is still running XP Home edition. :) Yeah, I know... Anywho, since Vista still has the original, easy Compatibility Mode, just like XP, I figure I'll just upgrade to Vista Premium or Ultimate, which will do me fine. However, my laptop has a 64 bit chip in it, so I can take advantage of the 64 bit version of the OS (and from what I've read, things tend to run a lot smoother if you run 64-on-64 --seen a lot of posts about things running slow with a 32 bit OS, and speeding up dramatically after switching to a 64 bit OS). The big question, though, is whether anyone here has done this, and did Thief install and run alright? I've used the 32-bit version of Compatibility Mode, and it works fine, but don't know if I'm heading for trouble with a 64 bit OS upgrade.
To clarify, I suppose I'm asking the question about more than just Thief, if anyone happens to have done a successful install and play. T1-3, Deus Ex, SS2, Morrowind, etc. The usual faves around here. :) I wonder if the FM loaders will still work, too? God, that'd suck if they didn't.
Any comments are welcome and appreciated.
Kurgan on 3/4/2010 at 03:10
Now that's very interesting. I've read in several articles that Compatibility Mode had been removed from Windows 7 in lieu of the newer virtualization method.
Well I'll be darned!
Hmmm, now I need to figure out if I should go for Windows 7 on this machine or stop at Vista. This laptop maxes out at 2 GB of ram (and I haven't even done the upgrade yet, still siting at 1.25 GB at the moment). Don't wanna end up having to devote all the resources to the OS and not having anything left for the games.
Decisions, decisions... :)
Ostriig on 3/4/2010 at 13:12
If you want to upgrade your OS, go for Windows 7, it doesn't require any more resources than Vista and it's excellent. In fact, some suggested it has slightly lower requirements, though I'm finding it to be quite the same with memory usage. I think it's fair to say you can expect Task Manager to show anything between 600MB and 1GB memory used after system start-up (OS, antivirus and others such running in the background).
You will want to upgrade to 2GB RAM if you switch. That will be perfectly fine, though, it's how I ran Vista for 2 years and W7 for a couple of months - now I've upgraded to 3GB, but it's only because I found the memory for dirt cheap.
But you need to consider your other system specs and what sort of games you want to play with it. In this case, the processor and the graphics card (though the latter has no bearing on running your OS, just games). And as for the games, are you looking to equip yourself for new games coming out, or just want to play games like Thief 1-3, DX1/2, SS2, etc.?
More importantly, I don't think you're looking at any notable speed-up of your system just by switching to a 64bit OS, so you may want to stay with XP 32, which still does take less resources than either Vista or W7. I haven't noticed any notable performance boost with my games when switching from Vista 32 to W7 64. The main immediate advantage is the ability to fully use over 4GB of RAM, but that's not the case with your laptop. Also, the availability of DX10 and up, not available on XP, for any new games that wouldn't run on DX9, though I think your laptop might be too old for those anyway.
Really, if your only reason for wanting a new OS was to get performance boost I think you're better off keeping the XP you have.
Kurgan on 3/4/2010 at 22:00
Hey Ostriig,
Not sure what I'm gonna do at this point. My laptop is an HP Pavilion dv8000 (specifically the dv8210us version). It's about 4 years old, has an AMD Turion 64 ML-32, 1.8 MHz CPU, maxes out at 2GB ram, and came with XP Home edition. Video is a 128 MB ATI Radeon Xpress 200M card that handles 2.0 shaders (vertex & pixel), and has a 300MHz GPU with a 400MHz ramdac. Nothing too fancy (and I've never been a fan of ATI, being a die-hard Nvidia fan), but to be honest, it's better than anything I had in the past when playing Thief. Sad, that. (Chuckle)
I bought it used as my daily cart-around machine, and to tide me over while I work on a long-term project of building my dream machine (gaming desktop). That project's gonna take me about a year, though. I'll be picking up parts at the rate of about 1 per month. Mobo & CPU are gonna eat me alive cost-wise. Check out this (
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130236) motherboard. Gonna toss a Phenom II x4 in it. :)
But that's quite a way down the road. Right now I just found out that I may have serious problems doing anything 64 bit on my laptop, even Vista. Drivers are practically non-existent, with only a few listed, and those are only for ancillary stuff. No real hardware drivers available. I could technically do it, but would almost certinaly have no audio, and very likely wouldn't be able to get the network adapter working, among other things. Grrrrr.
It's starting to look like I'll be stuck with a 32 bit version of Vista if I want to upgrade. I know, I could go for XP Pro instead of Home, which would help a little, but I really had my heart set on taking advantage of the 64 bit chip. Odd that they'd make a model like this, and then not support the OS's one would naturally want to use. I'm an HP fan. Love their service and support usually, but this appears to be once of those instances where they simply just fell short.
I've got some thinking to do...
Ostriig on 4/4/2010 at 00:17
I really don't think you're missing out on anything with your configuration, no reason to be disappointed. As I said, I haven't experienced any notable speed-up with my games when switching from Vista 32 to W7 64. And your configuration wouldn't allow you to take advantage of newer DX10+ exclusive games or addressing over 4GB RAM. Though if you want more details on the specifics of 64bit operating systems and 64bit CPUs you'll need to ask a more specialised hardware engineer, it's not my focus.
For your laptop I suggest you stick with XP, trying to cram either Vista or 7 on it would give you severe headaches. There's a 64bit version of XP as well, though I've heard it's not all that solid. If you are in the market for a new OS for that gaming desktop you want to put together, though, don't go for Vista, go directly for 7. Like I said, I used Vista for two years and I was perfectly fine with it, but 7 is simply better and there are no trade-offs. And speaking of a new gaming desktop, always worth looking through the Tech forum if you haven't, threads on the subject pop up every (
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130595&daysprune=-1) now (
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129692&daysprune=-1) and (
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130029&daysprune=-1) then.
Kurgan on 4/4/2010 at 01:54
It's not so much speeding up that I'm interested in, but removing the sluggishness I've been experiencing. After XP Home got through installing all the gazillion updates from Windows Update, to get it caught up to current, it started running incredibly slow. Y'know, you click a button and it sits there for a few seconds before doing anything, maximizing and minimizing windows does the same, with everything freezing for a few secs before responding. Very frustrating. Odd thing is, I repeatedly check the Task Manager, but nothing's eating up all the ram, really. It's acting like all the memory is being used, and each new click or task has to wait its turn.
I've read quite a few posts from people who were having a similar problem using a 32 bit OS on a system with a 64 bit chip, and they all say things cleared up and ran normally and smoothly after installing the 64 bit OS. That's why I was thinking it would be a good idea. I'd forgotten all about a 64 bit version of XP, but after you mentioned it, I looked at the drivers page again, and just like the other 64 bit categories, there's virtually nothing available. It seems I'm pretty will stuck with upgrading to a 32 bit version of XP Pro, Vista Home Premium, or Vista Ultimate (and since I've only got XP Pro and Vista Home Premium, that narrows things down even further unless I want to shell out even more cash).
I dunno, maybe if I knew for certain what was causing the sluggishness, and it turned out to be something other than the 32 bit vs 64 bit theory, it wouldn't seem like such a big deal. And I know Vista takes more resources than XP, but I really do like it, so would probably enjoy going that direction instead of XP Pro if it'll run alright on this machine. Vista certainly wasn't perfect, but I've had fun with it in the past, and was usually able to get around the bugs. It certainly added some spiffy features that weren't available in XP.
MoroseTroll on 4/4/2010 at 10:28
Kurgan: AFAIK, the main advantage of 64-bit OS is an ability to work with more than 4 GB of RAM. That's all. So, in your case, I can see no reason to install 64-bit OS, because your laptop only has 2 GB of RAM. Moreover, at this moment 64-bit versions of Windows are, say, less friendly to games than their 32-bit siblings because of several reasons (including poor drivers too).
BTW, what about some cleaning for your Windows XP? I mean do you use utilities like (
www.ccleaner.com) Crap Cleaner and (
www.defraggler.com) Defraggler? Is your antivirus up to date?
Ostriig on 4/4/2010 at 14:22
Quote Posted by Kurgan
It's not so much speeding up that I'm interested in, but removing the sluggishness I've been experiencing. [...]
Like what Morose Troll pointed out, it is quite possible that what you're experiencing is the result of file fragmentation and a bloated registry. Windows needs occasional maintenance, and the longer you go without any the slower the system can get. Grab C Cleaner (linked above) and run it on your registry (it's a good idea to also let it save a registry backup when it asks to before it starts removing obsolete entries, just in case) and also defragment your hard drive. You can get a stand-alone defragger like Morose Troll linked, or just use the (
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314848) standard one in Windows XP.
Quote:
I've read quite a few posts from people who were having a similar problem using a 32 bit OS on a system with a 64 bit chip, and they all say things cleared up and ran normally and smoothly after installing the 64 bit OS. That's why I was thinking it would be a good idea.
I don't know, first time I hear of this, and have I not noticed your problems on my machines. I've been using a 64bit OS only for a few months, prior to that I had Vista 32 on this same Core 2 Duo E6420 proc for two years, and further before that, XP 32 on an Athlon 64 3400+. I did eventually experience some slow-down with context-menu reactions (though nowhere near the extent your describe) that wouldn't be fixed by defragmenting the HDD, but this would be after roughly one-and-a-half to two years of usage and likely due to my not maintaining the system registry in any way at the time.
Quote:
I dunno, maybe if I knew for certain what was causing the sluggishness, and it turned out to be something other than the 32 bit vs 64 bit theory, it wouldn't seem like such a big deal. And I know Vista takes more resources than XP, but I really do like it, so would probably enjoy going that direction instead of XP Pro if it'll run alright on this machine. Vista certainly wasn't perfect, but I've had fun with it in the past, and was usually able to get around the bugs. It certainly added some spiffy features that weren't available in XP.
I wouldn't recommend Vista for your laptop because, even if you put 2GB RAM in, I fear the processor might tend to choke on it. Don't quote me on it, though, they seem to be putting 7 on netbooks with slow CPUs but a good amount of RAM. I'd suggest trying the registry cleaner and defrag path first. And if that still doesn't fix your issues, I'd suggest still trying a full format and fresh install, and then picking and choosing your OS updates before trying anything else.
