Chade on 13/7/2013 at 12:48
Quote Posted by Springheel
Thief may indeed be fighting this trend, but given the way Roy talks about action being a viable approach, I'm not sure it's winning.
Well, Roy's statements on this subject have ranged from (not verbatim) "shadows are the preferred approach, but you can cause mayhem if you want", through "we are emphasising escaping as a middle ground between viable combat and punishing combat", all the way to "if you want combat, this is not your game". It would be nice if he could stick to the one story.
Looking at the E3 video, combat seemed pretty punishing to me. Even reading the rock paper shotgun comments on combat, it sounded less like combat was a deliberately valid approach, and more like the combat AI kinda sucked.
All that said, I would be surprised if combat was as punishing as the original games. That's all part of the "carrots, not sticks" approach which I believe they are taking.
Quote Posted by Starker
See... I don't think that is the case. They say that focus is tied to the story and it might be even central to it, it seems. In the interviews, when they say that they have added the option to disable it for the few people that might not like it, they add that they really hope people will try it regardless. It's there to show that Garrett is the master thief, apparently. With the addition of XP, to me it seems like they have traded much of the player skill for character skill and that it's deliberate.
Well, certainly focus can substitute for player skill. But if you look at all the things we know focus can be used for, it's always the game making it easier for the player to accomplish tasks they could have done anyway. That's pretty much the idea behind the training wheel analogy.
Off the top of my head, here's what we know you can do with focus:
- Easier lockpicking mini-game. Without focus, it's still always possible to pick locks.
- Quicker pickpocketing. Without focus, it's still always possible to pickpocket.
- Highlight guard footsteps. Without focus, you can still use your ears.
- Auto head shots. Without focus, you should stil be able to headshot.
- Slow down time and highlight guard weak spots in combat. Without focus, you can still fight, and b1skit seemed to confirm that you can still hit the weak spots.
- Highlight "interesting" objects. Without focus, still possible to look around.
I have no opinion about what XP will give us ... I'm just nervously waiting to find out what the upgrades are.
Llama on 13/7/2013 at 14:44
Quote Posted by Chade
That same industry now seems to be unsure whether it wants pure stealth games or not. Splinter Cell seems to be moving away from pure stealth. Every other stealth experience getting the green light is mixed with action. The industry seems skeptical that stealth can carry a game all by itself. What I see in thief 4, and of course I could be wrong because there is a lot I don't know yet, but I see a deliberate and thoughtfull effort to overcome that trend.
To sell a pure stealth experience, EM are making a lot of these changes that we won't like. It all boils down to using carrots rather then sticks to encourage stealth and exploration within the game. Taking out the sword, using xp to reward stealth, making unconventional movement easier, using focus as a set of training wheels, showing off special loot, etc. These changes wouldn't make sense for the dark mod. They don't do anything to improve the game for us. But they do make sense for a game trying to show the industry that pure stealth is still viable.
to sum up what you said: game industry doesn't think stealth can carry a game these days so they're moving away from pure stealth by adding in a lot more action. Then goes on to point out thief is doing the same thing by adding in xp and more action oriented play. but dun worry guise, wink wink, because this is thief. All the changes that are being implemented are magically going to equate a pure stealth game.
Goldmoon Dawn on 13/7/2013 at 15:13
Quote Posted by Lady Rowena
Maybe we should start a petition.....:devil:
I mean, I get it, and that is an amusing idea. However, we should keep in mind that jtr has taken a break on purpose. The mods here didnt put him on break, he requested it. This has happened once before that I can remember. The last time this happened, I remember thinking, oh no! I spent a lot of time after that going back and rereading his recent posts of the time. Simply put, J knows what he is doing.
Dia on 13/7/2013 at 15:28
Agreed, GmD. I pose the question rhetorically since I know that jtr's absence is voluntary and he knows what's best for him. Just my way of letting him know I'm still thinking of him. If anybody had an inside track into what was going on between EM & TTLG T4 forum, it's jtr.
Goldmoon Dawn on 13/7/2013 at 15:48
Quote Posted by Dia
Where's jtr when you need him?!
Oh trust me Dia, I myself made a similar comment or two already! At first, I was really pissed about the fact that he had to depart. We talked about it here in PM and elsewhere, and came to a mutual understanding. The comment that threw me was the petition one. I mean honestly, the only petition we could make would be to jtr himself, but if you understand where he is coming from, and has been coming from all along, obviously you would know better. I dont want to talk out of turn, because J wouldnt want that, but since it is briefly on the table, the only other worthwhile petition would be to certain other people here to get a freakin' clue.
Lady Rowena on 13/7/2013 at 16:44
I was just kidding. And yes, the petition was meant to jtr himself. I knew that his absence was voluntary, but I thought that the reason was because he was a little...disgusted about the trend around here.
Now I guess that there are more serious reasons. I apologize if my comment was inappropriate.
Goldmoon Dawn on 13/7/2013 at 17:04
Oh no, there is no problem here. I am prolly the most pissed about the whole thing. I mean, jtr is one of the few reasons I still come here! I just dont want to stir up any trouble. Put it this way, the people who drove jtr away know who they are. People make jokes about jtr being tldr, but... that is exactly why I *love* him! The never ending source of not only concrete data usually on demand, but the whimsical and creative ideas he often shares on awesome game play concepts.
nickie on 13/7/2013 at 17:08
Well I'm going to be following his example and am taking a few days off at the end of the month. I won't be saying which ones though - don't want anyone to think they can start swearing their heads off because I'm not here. :)
Dia on 13/7/2013 at 18:13
nickie; I hope the reason you're taking a few days off is in order to get some R&R! You deserve more than a few days, imo (as do all our Mods/Admins). Go with our blessings, thanks, and hopes that you get wild and crazy while letting off some steam. ;) (P.S. Pics are not mandatory but will satisfy our curiosity.)
@Lady R: Not to worry! We understood where you were coming from, hon, so no apologies necessary.
Vae on 13/7/2013 at 21:48
It surely must be TTLG's fine women, that keeps me coming back...:angel:
