Muzman on 1/12/2010 at 20:00
Most of it sounds pretty low grade from what little I've read about it. I tend to agree that there's something unsettling about this kind of mass theft becoming the norm. But I don't think it will. It's a shake up. A peek behind the curtain that, unlike The Pentagon Papers, doesn't reveal much concerted mendacity, but the petty human mess we all susepcted we might live in.
The idea that we already knew that so we don't need this is only correct on the surface. This makes things a bit more specific. For a while now armchair (and often proper journalism) political analysis has been only slightly above conspiracy theory a lot of the time. There's good stuff, of course and there are real manouverings taking place that consider factors the public might not be aware of. But you don't have to look far to find, frequently self appointed, experts describing tortured webs of motivation and effect of every little thing. Stuff that'd make the Da Vinci Code look direct and explicit. Everything is Machiavellian, PR driven, moustache twirling.
We could do without that crap ganiing too much currency if you ask me. It's not that absolute transparency is likely to happen or a even a good idea for democracy at all times. But the occasional reminder that all this stuff isn't quite as lofty and mysterious as some would have us believe strikes me as a pretty good idea.
Apparently they're gearing up for a whole mess of corporate leaks they've got. That's where the real deal is, if you ask me.
Pyrian on 1/12/2010 at 23:59
Privacy? To heck with privacy. Any agent of my government acting as an agent of my government does not deserve any privacy from me in those actions whatsoever. That's not a private action, it's a public one.
Secrecy is another matter. Secrecy is called for solely in the direct protection of life. Location of a vulnerable target? Sure, that's a valid secret. Some public figure who probably receives more excoriation on any given day than the history of this forum contains, might be mildly embarrassed? No, that's not a valid secret.
The banality of most of this particular leak IMO proves that the government is keeping secrets as a matter of convenience and habit and not as any matter of legally valid policy.
SubJeff on 4/12/2010 at 03:11
And on it rumbles.
Assange is
just on the cool side of smug and I, along with many others no doubt, find these sexual assault allegations coming to light and then being further pursued (
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/aug/22/wikileaks-julian-assange-denies-rape-allegations) after being dropped earlier this year very suspicious.
The US government's pressure on server hosts to drop WikiLeaks is... bizarre. The information is out there so there is no point in trying to stop it now.
And shame on Australia for not wanting to protect one of it's own. Yeah, good call guys, must be great being one of your citizens. Brown may have been an ass in many respects but (
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11866575) at least he tried to represent.
Scots Taffer on 4/12/2010 at 04:34
Isn't the website dead? I heard yesterday the domain dropped it.
edit: ah, see it's back up.
june gloom on 4/12/2010 at 08:49
Krauthammer? He's a bit of a jingoist and tends to go for 'safe' conservative viewpoints, but he'll sometimes temper his hawkish nonsense with more reasonable opinions. He's not nearly as much of a petulant dinosaur as (
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126210) George Will.
shellac on 4/12/2010 at 09:08
Cui bono?
- how believable is it for someone to download 250k+ documents without notice?
- did something really serious get leaked or was it just food for meaningless gossip?
- the media hystery diverts very nicely from the financial and economic problems in the US (bye bye dollar, nice "Change") and europe (greece, ireland, portugal, spain,...). Should stretch the time until christmas.
- the "incorrectly issued arrest warrant" against Assange...I guess many (MANY) people got locked away in Guantanamo in the recent years without arrest warrant at all. And noone talks about the iranian nuclear scientist who got killed some week ago...what a strange yet very convenient coincidence that was.
- a nice opportunity for propaganda: leaders of arabic states have planned a military strike against the iran? or so it was "leaked". Surely that won't cause even the slightest mischief between allies...
The list goes on, again: Cui bono?
hopper on 4/12/2010 at 10:14
Quote Posted by shellac
The list goes on
That's your problem right there: There's just no end to the list of stuff that happened, but went un- or underreported in the last couple of weeks. As always.
Seriously, you're basing your half-baked conspiracy theory on the trivial fact that Shit Happens.
Kolya on 4/12/2010 at 10:19
I always hated his smug smile and U2 haven't made a good song in 10 years but this is going too far! :mad:
demagogue on 4/12/2010 at 16:42
One of my professors wrote a good (
http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/chesterman2/English) editorial on this.
His main point was the biggest impact this is going to have in the long run is the feedback effects, perversely creating a lot more secrecy and paranoia in government agencies. You won't see note-taking at meetings, more will be done without documentation or documents will be eyes-only, and there will be regular purges of documents.
Edit: Not to mention the willingness of diplomats to talk to each other frankly. They'll hold things back or not open up dialogs, which can only be bad for healthy relations.
