Rug Burn Junky on 8/11/2010 at 16:36
Quote Posted by CCCToad
Now that neither you or nobody else has shown any substantive evidence (statistical or anecdotal) that the majority of tea party people are racist, it definitely isn't the argument anymore.
It never was, you utter, utter douchebag.
Hell, read my last post: "large subset"
That doesn't mean majority, nor does it have to. If only 20% of Teabaagers are racist fucks, and only half of them could point to that as the prime motivator for their vote, that's still huge. When elections are won and lost on a mere 3% of the vote total, and you have a frenzied minority with high turnout and questionable motivations, it has severe distorting effects on elections. That's
bad, and it doesn't take that many stupid fucks contributing to the effect to make it a problem.
But to admit this requires actually THINKING. The real world is hard, it's complicated. You need to be able to think with a certain level of abstraction to parse out actual proximate causes, not this simple, stupid, shitty binary thinking that you employ over and over and over.
CCCToad on 9/11/2010 at 01:07
Quote Posted by Rug Burn Junky
It never was, you utter, utter douchebag.
Hell, read my last post: "large subset"
That doesn't mean majority, nor does it have to. If only 20% of Teabaagers are racist fucks, and only half of them could point to that as the prime motivator for their vote, that's still huge. When elections are won and lost on a mere 3% of the vote total, and you have a frenzied minority with high turnout and questionable motivations, it has severe distorting effects on elections. That's
bad, and it doesn't take that many stupid fucks contributing to the effect to make it a problem.
But to admit this requires actually THINKING. The real world is hard, it's complicated. You need to be able to think with a certain level of abstraction to parse out actual proximate causes, not this simple, stupid, shitty binary thinking that you employ over and over and over.
So is there any evidence to indicate that even 20% of Teabaggers are "racist fucks"? Even then, I'm not sure it matters. Its dubious to claim that the Tea Party racists are ruining things for the Democrats: people who vote for Republicans because of racism were already voting that way long before the Tea Party showed up.
In other words, lets assume that 20% is true (which there really isn't any evidence to support). It only matters if the party is causing racists to vote Republican more than usual.
Either way, it seems dubious to argue that the "the problem" (as you put it) of racist voters is one significant enough to have significantly impacted the results. There's other factors that dwarf racism as a factor. For starters, the "enthusiasm gap" caused by Obama reversing himself on nearly all of the progressive promises he ran his campaign on.
Scots Taffer on 9/11/2010 at 01:44
Quote Posted by CCCToad
why would racist tea partiers, who are known for hating black people, elect Allen West?
i'm not racist, one of my
friends elected officials is black
Renzatic on 9/11/2010 at 02:09
Quote Posted by CCCToad
people who vote for Republicans because of racism were already voting that way long before the Tea Party showed up.
Which is really funny if you think about it.
fett on 9/11/2010 at 02:17
Quote Posted by CCCToad
Either way, it seems dubious to argue that the "the problem" (as you put it) of racist voters is one significant enough to have significantly impacted the results. There's other factors that dwarf racism as a factor. For starters, the "enthusiasm gap" caused by Obama reversing himself on nearly all of the progressive promises he ran his campaign on.
It's been significant in my state, which voted overwhelmingly Democrat during the 90's, has voted overwhelmingly Republican since Obama ran.
Scots Taffer on 9/11/2010 at 03:01
Quote Posted by Renzatic
Which is really funny if you think about it.
These fuckin' liberal jackasses think this racism thing is some kinda new trend. Hah! Me and ma poppy bein' doin' this shit fer years!
Starrfall on 9/11/2010 at 03:18
That's pretty accurate
Quote Posted by Lee Atwater
You start out in 1954 by saying, 'Nigger, nigger, nigger.' By 1968 you can't say 'nigger' - that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites.
And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me - because obviously sitting around saying, 'We want to cut this,' is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than 'Nigger, nigger.'
Quote Posted by the New Yorker
Buchanan gave me a copy of a seven-page confidential memorandum—“A little raw for today,” he warned—that he had written for Nixon in 1971, under the heading “Dividing the Democrats.” Drawn up with an acute understanding of the fragilities and fault lines in “the Old Roosevelt Coalition,” it recommended that the White House “exacerbate the ideological division” between the Old and New Left by praising Democrats who supported any of Nixon's policies; highlight “the elitism and quasi-anti-Americanism of the National Democratic Party”; nominate for the Supreme Court a Southern strict constructionist who would divide Democrats regionally; use abortion and parochial-school aid to deepen the split between Catholics and social liberals; elicit white working-class support with tax relief and denunciations of welfare. Finally, the memo recommended exploiting racial tensions among Democrats. “Bumper stickers calling for black Presidential and especially Vice-Presidential candidates should be spread out in the ghettoes of the country,” Buchanan wrote. “We should do what is within our power to have a black nominated for Number Two, at least at the Democratic National Convention.” Such gambits, he added, could “cut the Democratic Party and country in half; my view is that we would have far the larger half.”
Renzatic on 9/11/2010 at 05:09
Quote Posted by Scots Taffer
These fuckin' liberal jackasses think this racism thing is some kinda new trend. Hah! Me and ma poppy bein' doin' this shit fer years!
Actually, I was kind of poking fun at the fact that the Republicans have traditionally been the progressive party when it comes to racial issues. They were responsible for the Emancipation Proclamation, and were the major party behind repealing Jim Crow back in the late 60's. On the other hand, you look at the Democrats, specifically the southern variety, and you could see that they were the malefactors in just about every racial/segregation issue from the 1880's up til the early 1970's.
Even now, for all their faults, I'd be hard pressed to call the Republicans racist. I don't think they care what color you are, so long as you're a loose spender with a couple billion in the bank.
And the Tea Party? I have to agree with RBJ here. There is an undercurrent of racist there, but it's more a vague ingrained notion amongst most of them than any direct agenda. To put it in perspective, ole Teabagger Bill might not like the idea of a black dude dating his daughter, but he doesn't give much thought to race in any political sense. He's more worried about that socialist boogyman taking away his freedoms than what the coloreds are doing on the other side of town.
Any racism there is a passive, cultural thing. Not so much direct hate as it is general ignorance. Throw in the occasional smattering of white guilt for good measure, and you have the Tea Party stance on race.
CCCToad on 9/11/2010 at 05:19
Quote Posted by Renzatic
He's more worried about that socialist boogyman taking away his freedoms than what the coloreds are doing on the other side of town.
That, and throw in a bit of "Dey Took our Jerbs!"
fett on 9/11/2010 at 14:41
Quote Posted by Renzatic
Any racism there is a passive, cultural thing. Not so much direct hate as it is general ignorance. Throw in the occasional smattering of white guilt for good measure, and you have the Tea Party stance on race.
You said this better than I did above. But I would add that as Fox builds up steam, they're becoming more overt in their "let's kick out all the Muslims" rhetoric. I would say that the above describes my father perfectly two years ago. Now he wants to re-enact the Crusades. The only tangible difference is that he's been digesting O'Reilieeileiellley and tracking the Tea Party these last two years.
