Why there should be restrictions on quicksaves

<Username> on 28/10/2022 at 08:55

Personally, I enjoy Thief more when I don't use any saves during a mission. The tension is higher. Whenever I get caught, I have frantically try to salvage the situation if I still want to have a chance at completing the mission.

This only works with smaller missions though. Many are just too large and/or contain areas where the likelihood of a mission failure is too high.

The possibility to forego saving entirely is the reason why I enjoy smaller fan missions like Guardhouse 2, Shadow Play or Alcazar so much.

Dii on 3/11/2022 at 12:15

Quote Posted by klatremus

I don't see any reason to force save restrictions on people. However, I am totally for providing that option in the game settings. It would make for a cool playstyle, sort of semi-ironman, and would definitely increase the tension of the playthrough. However, since my style is a challenging version of ghosting, playing with save restrictions has never even been an option for me. I have tried iron-ghosting, but like Phantom0914 mentioned, it just isn't fun for medium/hard missions. And for Supreme ghosting I would never even consider it.

I don't think the limit to saving argument is particularly against ghosting, though that topic has emerged in the ghosting community quite frequently the last couple of years. Reasons for having limits to saving that I can think of are:
1) Force of habit; the player is used to playing like that from other video games
2) Increased immersion; perhaps especially in stealth games this is a better argument than other genres
3) Increased challenge and tension
4) Increased replayability (though having to start a mission over every time I call tedious)
5) Seeing others saving too much and wanting to impose a limit to their playstyle

I think it would make supreme ghosting more akin to an Low% speedrun, where rather than going from start to finish with no busts, you go from start to finish with the minimum number of busts possible within the limited save pool.

I think it could be interesting with a limited LOAD pool, rather than limited save pool, you should be able to save wherever and whenever, but can only load the game so many times. (so yea basically ironman)

OR all stays as it is but it tallys up saves and relaods. so again Low% speedrun, finish the mission with the lowest amount of total loads and saves while supreme ghosting to add an extra dimension

onetruekeeper on 28/11/2022 at 19:40

One should not try to impose a style of gameplay for everyone so the argument of quicksaves is pointless. Even with quicksave enabled it is still possible to play the entire level without having to save at all for those that want such a challenge.

Esme on 29/11/2022 at 17:03

What is this obsession with making me play in someone else's style ?

I don't publish my stats, I'm not interested in bragging rights so what is the point in making me iron man a level against my will ?

I'm not going to enjoy it, so I'm not going to play it

Literally all you will succeed in doing is to make me walk away from a game & a community I've enjoyed & contributed to for nearly 2 decades

You want to iron man, great go do it, I'm not interested

You want to write a mission that has to be iron manned, great go do it, I'm not interested

I'll just play the hundreds of missions that don't force a play style

Hit Deity on 30/11/2022 at 02:12

Quote Posted by SlyFoxx

I'm too old not to QS

I'm with you, SlyFoxx. I need all the crutches I can get!

Darkness_Falls on 30/11/2022 at 06:07

There's really nothing funner in gaming than to reach a tough part that you have to play over and over again to get past it, and getting to hear the NPCs repeat their lines over and over again when the game restarts from the pre-programmed checkpoint that the devs gave you. Having the ability to QuickSave AFTER that repetitive dialog nonsense would be fantastic ;)

In this case, the reason 'against' QuickSaving (since I now see that is all the OP wants to hear) requires you put yourself in the developer's shoes. They don't want you to QuickSave after that dialog and lose the context of the story point playing out or forget the beautifully-delivered voice acting lines when you have to play that sequence again after dying in 45 seconds. Even if we have to re-hear it 5, 10, or 15 nauseating times over the span of 5 or 10 minutes, it is critical that we hear the NPCs repeat their lines a dozen times. As gamers, maybe it is felt we forget things very quickly. And being able to save wherever we want is risky because we will be playing the game in ways the developers don't want us to

Starker on 30/11/2022 at 16:14

Some game developers and fan mission designers are just pure evil and want the players to suffer. For example, they make the enemy such that it will single-mindedly attack and pursue you, without even giving you the chance to explain yourself. If only you could talk to these creatures, then perhaps you could try and make friends with them, form alliances... Now that would be interesting. But, alas, we can only ever speculate on their motives and perhaps see them preach their wicked craft at GDC, if we are lucky.

Darkness_Falls on 30/11/2022 at 18:16

That's part of the game and is nothing like being forced to re-hear the exact same NPC lines a dozen times in a row because you reach a boss character or a particularly tricky area, imo

Well, usually 3 or 4 times max for me... I don't want to exaggerate too much for my point. But I imagine some people would hear it a dozen times or more. 3 or 4 is annoying enough ;) There is a Walking Dead action/adventure game that I am definitely stuck at, though, and have heard the NPC repeat their lines 20+ times. I keep having to shut it off and try again in a future week or month. It has been 3 or 4 months since I've played it, all because of the NPC line repetition... which happens every 60 seconds... for a part that I can't seem to get past (maybe because the devs probably only made one way to complete it and I haven't found it yet).

Midgard on 4/1/2024 at 00:41

I laughed when I saw Sly's response in this topic because it was so terse and true for us olders who need the safety net of quicksaving to prevent us breaking a hip. However, I still hate myself when I quick save at the slightest inconvenience and want to ween myself off this very bad behavior and give in to the thrill of the chase more when I'm caught and only reload upon Death and damn the progress metric. So how about this? My new years resolution for 2024 - I, Midgard, shall not Quicksave in any Thief FM or OM unless I die and/or have to make that difficult platform jump over a lava bed not less than 100 meters high! Okay, that last one can more adaptive to include lava beds of only 5 meters high, or 3 meters, or whatever the plunge-to-death distance is... oh and it doesn't have to be over a bed of lava ... it can be over a bed of carnivorous, man-eating kittens, or even a very shiny hard floor, or not-so-shiny. There, I'm I'm all set for my new year's resolution.

john9818a on 4/1/2024 at 11:56

From my perspective, using quicksaves allows players to make more efficient use of their time. Thief is just a game, and any time spent on it can't be had again,. It would be silly to think a player would have to repeat hours of gameplay just because he or she got spotted. The developers never intended for the player to remain stealthy constantly, so it wouldn't make sense to force a restriction onto players based on an unintended form of gameplay.

There is no difference between quicksaves and regular saves other than the ability to use alt-s and alt-l vs going into the menus.