Parker'sSire on 26/6/2006 at 00:25
Quote Posted by Strontium Dog
I surely can't be the only one who felt a huge WTF when I read this.
Though I don't fully agree with it and I don't care for the way it's worded, I did not have the same response. I live here and understand where it comes from.
Quote Posted by Strontium Dog
Is it your honest opinion that immigrants necessarily bring down the quality of the host country when they immigrate?
No. But that doesn't mean that it is not what's been happening.
But...
I think I can see what the misunderstanding is here...
I started responding from the "illegal" imigration angle myself... but the following made me rewrite it...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strontium Dog:Nevertheless, it seems quite clear that the thread starter was referring to an increase in legal immigration, so why you chose to bring illegal immigrants into it is a little on the mystifying side.
If you're outside the US, it's important to understand something:
The concern and controversy in the US is not with legal immigration. As far as every citizen I've ever spoken with, it isn't now and has never been.
The current problems concern ILLEGAL immigration, hence every answer in this thread from the US.
So, to first answer the original thread question directly, I have no problem with increasing legit imigration to the US with one stipulation. that the US uses at least as much discrimination in who it allows as Canada does.
Canadian taffers correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that if you want to live in Canada, you have to prove that you have something to offer Canada. A skill that would be unique, or, at least, would not be taking a position away from a Canadian citizen.
In other words, if you want to be a US citizen, the country has grown and evolved enough that it should now say... prove that you have something to offer. And it should not take 20 fucking years to get it done!
I know people who have taken years to obtain citizenship. It's ridiculous. They are (and would have been sooner) very worthwhile citizens who enrich this country.
The crux of the matter:
GBM is correct.
Everyone is angry as hell in the US because people who have legit reason for being here can't get in and the legislature wants to grant citizenship to everyone who can manage to cross the border. The Mexican president has actually threatened to sue the US if we stop illegal immigrants from entering the US.
It's not his country. But at the moment, he seems to have more say in what the US does than the average US citizen.
There's a whole lot more to say on this issue, (I do have quite a bit of experience dealing with immigrant students of every possible kind) but I'll leave it at this...
The US is not the perfect place with perfect people that some here would like to think it is (even that's an understatement)... but the people here are not even remotely as selfish or as arrogant as some fol;ks outside the US seem to think they are.
To most "Americans" I speak with, it makes more sense to pay out millions of dollars to find a way to help turn Mexico or any country into a thriving self sustaining, healthy place to be instead of letting everyone ... literally... into this country and take the chance that they will not be valuable contributors and will not abide by the laws, values, and norms followed by the average US citizen. (And there's plenty of evidence that that's a very viable scenario.)
They'd rather see the rest of the world turn into a place like the US, than the US turn into, e.g. Haiti.
(Most people here also think that the Bush administration's style and methods of attempting to do this sucks.)
@Strontium Dog
Many, many people in the US agree with you regarding the use of nouns in describing illegal immigrants.
No sarcasm intended, but they prefer the term "criminals".
Scots Taffer on 26/6/2006 at 00:26
tu es loco hombre
Rogue Keeper on 26/6/2006 at 16:06
Quote Posted by TheGreatGodPan
People don't want migrants here for the same reason that migrants want to come here: we prefer living in the U.S to their crappy countries.
So. What crappy country came your ancestors from to the US?
OnionBob on 26/6/2006 at 16:08
Quote Posted by WAREAGLE
american born citizens arent the trouble makers.
Turtle on 26/6/2006 at 16:51
Because fuck 'em, that's why.
Oh, and the US isn't full of immigrants.
The large majority of us were born here.
As were our parents, grandparents, etc...
Kaleid on 26/6/2006 at 17:35
Police State
"America cannot have an empire abroad and a Republic at home."
Mark Twain
SD on 26/6/2006 at 18:04
Quote Posted by jprobs
How is the word "illegals" highly offensive?
Did you not read what I wrote earlier in this very thread? Here, let me reproduce it for you, and anyone else with vision impairment:
I just think that we can at least refer to these people as nouns rather than adjectives. I appreciate that it's de rigeur in the States to dehumanise illegal immigrants in this way, but I'd rather hope we could raise the level of debate on TTLG a little higher.Quote:
Guess we can't rely on these news outlets for any news, there is just no way to give them credence because of the use of "highly offensive" terms.
Can't really disagree with you there! The creeping 'tard is slowly infecting so many of our major news outlets.
jprobs on 26/6/2006 at 18:17
I am not vision impaired. And I saw what you posted.
You posted: "your use of the highly offensive term "illegals" suggests that we oughtn't give much credence to your opinion either way."
I think you are a bit full of yourself to degrade someone elses opinion just because YOU happen to find a particular word offensive. I do not find it offensive, nor do the major media outlets.
Phydeaux had a valid point and I happen to agree with him. "Illegals" are a drain on our system.
SD on 26/6/2006 at 18:51
Quote Posted by jprobs
I think you are a bit full of yourself to degrade someone elses opinion just because YOU happen to find a particular word offensive. I do not find it offensive, nor do the major media outlets.
Tough shit. You're using a repugnant Americanism which has inherent negative connotations to refer to a whole bunch of people. Until you can learn to treat a person as a human being, then I'm not going to accept your opinion as valid.
Quote:
Phydeaux had a valid point and I happen to agree with him. "Illegals" are a drain on our system.
Are you going to back that claim up with some facts, or are you going to continue to ignore them?
