Scots Taffer on 28/2/2008 at 05:57
Quote Posted by Aja
which part is this exactly?
I'm mixing my star treks intros like a fucking wicked sick dj.
Spaztick on 28/2/2008 at 06:52
It's not really fair to say that Altruism is selfish; you're going to benefit doing something from someone else because you're not an island in the world, benefiting someone else benefits you as well because we're all somehow connected.
37637598 on 28/2/2008 at 07:39
I don't understand why people are waiting for world peace, it doesn't exist and never will until people realize that peace is something you create for yourself. No being on earth can give you peace without you letting them, which is also true to say that you could take any second, minute, hour, or more of your life and instantly be in peace and stay in peace for as long as you please and it can be the most peaceful moment of your life if you make it.
People get so caught up in their stupid things that they forget we're all humans comprised of the same micro-foundation of energy and vitamins, and everything else that makes me and you.
I guess that was my gain for being raised poor, learning and controling my emotions and such... Sweet. :cool:
flexbuster on 29/2/2008 at 00:39
You make a good point, and with that in mind, it becomes kind of amusing thinking about the very concept of having heated arguments about peace.
Rogue Keeper on 29/2/2008 at 08:31
Quote Posted by 37637598
I don't understand why people are waiting for world peace, it doesn't exist and never will until people realize that peace is something you create for yourself. No being on earth can give you peace without you letting them, which is also true to say that you could take any second, minute, hour, or more of your life and instantly be in peace and stay in peace for as long as you please and it can be the most peaceful moment of your life if you make it.
But who's just WAITING? You can create basis for peace merely by spreading positive thoughts that people and groups should be nice to each other and try to solve disputes with a rational debate, diplomatically respecting each other's position. You can save helluva lot ammunition and blood this way.
What am I doing for support of world peace in practical life, if somebody wants to know? I'm in asylum system for refugees. And along that, I'm spreading my libertarian socialist pacifist bullshit, of course.
On the other end we have altruism-denying nihilism, emerging from weakness of human spirit, frustration, resignation and desperation. Not that I don't have such moments. But I have at least some hope for a better future, not my future, everyone's future. What have you, my esteemed, permanently cynical critics? Just your gorgeous ignorance. Well I'd better be unhappy than ignorant if I had to choose.
I was being raised poor (lower mid class to be precise), sometimes I control my emotions to the point some think I'm not a normal human, and I learned different lessons than you. Isn't the world marvelous?
Also 37637598, don't take everything above to be meant personally, I just forgot to control my emotions a bit and spoke out some generalizations... nasty things these emotions, aint'they. :cheeky:
Vivian on 29/2/2008 at 08:56
The message I'm getting here is that peace is easy if you're drunk?
Rogue Keeper on 29/2/2008 at 08:59
I don't know, you tell me. I'm nearly an abstinent.
Vivian on 29/2/2008 at 09:36
You use phrases like 'gorgeous ignorance' when you're sober? Who are you, Peter Murphy? Anyway, I know what you're point is, but let me explain my view of altruism a bit more: 'Altruism' is defined as a selfless act, one in which there is no benefit to the protagonist at all. I do not believe that these acts technically exist, as many people have said above, there is always some kind of benefit involved, be it only psychological in most cases. IMPORTANTLY, this does not mean that I think any less of 'altruism' as it exists in reality, working hard on other peoples behalf with the only reward being an improvement in the world as you perceive it is most definitely a good thing and everyone should be encouraged to do so (unless you're a sociopath and think the world would be better with only dead people in it or something).
Take your work with asylum seekers (is that what you meant?). You obviously get something out of it or you wouldn't be mentioning it with such pride on the internet. Does that cheapen what you're doing? Not at all. Neither does it make me a dried up cynic or whatever.
Since when did lower middle class count as 'poor'?
Rogue Keeper on 29/2/2008 at 10:20
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You use phrases like 'gorgeous ignorance' when you're sober? Who are you, Peter Murphy?
Gorgeous in sense "pathetically hopeless". I don't even remember when I had hangover last time. Peter Murphy is a stranger to me.
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Anyway, I know what you're point is, but let me explain my view of altruism a bit more: 'Altruism' is defined as a selfless act, one in which there is no benefit to the protagonist at all. I do not believe that these acts technically exist, as many people have said above, there is always some kind of benefit involved, be it only psychological in most cases. IMPORTANTLY, this does not mean that I think any less of 'altruism' as it exists in reality, working hard on other peoples behalf with the only reward being an improvement in the world as you perceive it is most definitely a good thing and everyone should be encouraged to do so (unless you're a sociopath and think the world would be better with only dead people in it or something).
And you think you know all complex causes of altruism in everyone just because you know your personal selfish causes of altruism? It seems you just can't imagine there are not selfish people out there, can you? I'm not talking about myself, I'm talking about an IDEAL of altruism. Ideals are important. Loose your ideals and you become ignorant, nihilistic and ultimately pathetically hopeless. And in that state of mind, hope for a better world is really a phantasmagoria. Of course, here I accuse you of making generalizations, while I made generalizations as well - but I have realized that as you could have noticed.
I shall wait for 37637598's reply. I reacted to his post in the first place, not yours. But thanks for addition to the debate.
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Take your work with asylum seekers (is that what you meant?). You obviously get something out of it or you wouldn't be mentioning it with such pride on the internet. Does that cheapen what you're doing? Not at all. Neither does it make me a dried up cynic or whatever.
Pride? What I get from it is about 400 Euro for a month (and that's the main income in our household) and lots of bureaucratic dirt and shitty realizations about the world that would make a lot of people cynical. So one should better have good nerves for this job, yes. I mentioned it before anybody asks "what are you doing for world peace or the poor then huh?" It's not much but I'm not just WAITING for a better world. But now I'm looking for a bit less altruistic work for a better salary (that's a selfish motivation!) - does it make me less proud and pretentiously altruistic in your eyes, or more weak and cynical ? You decide.
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Since when did lower middle class count as 'poor'?
Maybe where you live it doesn't. Or maybe you aren't rich enough yourself to see lower middle class as poor.
Vivian on 29/2/2008 at 10:56
You're dead right. I honestly don't believe there are people out there who do things for which they gain no satisfaction or material gain of any kind. If you want to argue about some kind of platonic altruism, I'm not sure I can contribute - I mean, yeah, it exists if you believe in it, as much as such things can. But I dont find abstractions like that meaningful or interesting things to talk about. Why not just concentrate on dealing with things as they are?
Shit, that does sound a bit dried up doesn't it? Oh well.
Peter Murphy was in Bauhaus (kind of a goth Bananarama), he said silly things and had silly hair.
