flexbuster on 27/2/2008 at 21:37
Quote Posted by Kuuso
Nah, it's always based on personal gain, even if it's just helping someone. There's the feeling of happiness gained from it.
Please help me explain the concept of self-sacrifice, or even the fact that it's possible to care about people even if they hate you and caring about them causes you misery.
Quote Posted by Yakoob
And why exactly, besides religon, are we obligated to fix the problems of someone from another continent we will never meet?
For one thing, your lives do intersect; the economy is a global thing. This is the 21st century, we don't live on metaphorical islands anymore, if we ever did. Just because you don't have to face someone doesn't mean you don't affect their lives in any way; what we do in the US (or UK, or Australia, or Korea, or anywhere else) does affect those in other nations, and that sure as hell includes the less economically developed ones.
Saying that altruism is always selfish is kind of silly to me and smacks of, well, cheap sophomoric cynicism, as Thirith said, as well as an understanding of how people actually work.
People are inherently compassionate beings. We're inherently selfish too, but those are different things. It is, in fact, possible to do things which have absolutely no selfish payoff whatsoever, and for which the derived satisfaction is far less than the negative effects it has on you. It may be true that we still do altruistic things in order to influence the world in a style of our own choosing, but that hardly makes it selfish, just motivated by your own ideals.
the_grip on 27/2/2008 at 22:50
Quote Posted by flexbuster
Please help me explain the concept of self-sacrifice, or even the fact that it's possible to care about people even if they hate you and caring about them causes you misery.
Not saying i buy the "no altruism" argument (after all, it depends on how you define altruism), but i'm sure you could say that you are doing something, even if it makes you miserable, because you are trying to avoid even more misery. In a strange way, that could be viewed as self-serving (read: not selfish, but self-serving).
Chade on 27/2/2008 at 22:59
The "no altruism" argument makes sense ... but only if you're pedantic enough.
In practice, it's quite irrelevant where altruism comes from, or whether it's really altruism ... we all know that people regularly give without expecting anything in return.
Scots Taffer on 27/2/2008 at 23:47
I know Scott, we should have united together, abolished money, created universal replicators and be travelling the stars by now, searching for new life, new civilisations.... TO BOLDLY GO WHERE NO MAN HAS GONE BEFORE
DUNNN DUNNN DUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
DUNNN DUNNN DUNNN-DUNNN DUNNN DAAAA DAAAAAAAAAAAA
The_Raven on 28/2/2008 at 00:02
Earl Grey, hot.
jtr7 on 28/2/2008 at 00:07
Erin Gray, hawt?
Nicker on 28/2/2008 at 01:21
Quote Posted by Chade
The "no altruism" argument makes sense ... but only if you're pedantic enough.
In practice, it's quite irrelevant where altruism comes from, or whether it's
really altruism ... we all know that people regularly give without expecting anything in return.
It makes sense because it makes sense, not because you stick an "only if it's pedantic" label on it.
If what we are discussing may not really be what we are discussing then WTF are we even bothering to use words for? Now
that doesn't make sense.
If altruism is an "unselfish regard for the welfare of others" then it sure as hell does matter where it comes from or whether it's real. All apparent acts of altrusim are, IMO, acts of cost benefit analysis, even it the cost is "could I live with myself if I don't do such-and-such".
the_grip on 28/2/2008 at 01:25
Nicker, i'm on the same wavelength. It's all about utility.
jtr7 on 28/2/2008 at 01:25
So a person who loses his/her own life to rescue a stranger is suicidal?
Chade on 28/2/2008 at 01:27
The original point of this post was asking why haven't people banded together to solve certain problems. In such a context the distinction between "real" altruism, and selfish behavior that is identical to "real" altruism, is worthless.
