Koki on 27/2/2008 at 17:59
Altruism is stupid.
The_Raven on 27/2/2008 at 18:06
"Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb."
Kuuso on 27/2/2008 at 18:43
Quote Posted by Koki
Altruism is stupid.
Altruism is a lie. There is no such thing.
jtr7 on 27/2/2008 at 19:33
Actually, it exists in small bursts. It's hard as hell to sustain, but it happens. :p
Kuuso on 27/2/2008 at 19:51
Quote Posted by jtr7
Actually, it exists in small bursts. It's hard as hell to sustain, but it happens. :p
Nah, it's always based on personal gain, even if it's just helping someone. There's the feeling of happiness gained from it.
Thirith on 27/2/2008 at 19:59
A) You can do things you consider right and still not feel much happiness afterwards. B) Feeling happy after doing something altruistic (or 'altruistic', if you don't believe in it) doesn't automatically mean that you're doing it to feel good.
nickie on 27/2/2008 at 20:05
Quote Posted by Yakoob
And why exactly, besides religon, are we obligated to fix the problems of someone from another continent we will never meet?
Because of one of the most beautiful pieces of writing I've ever read? And also which I can never resist quoting.
Quote:
. . . No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were: any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee. . .
And also a poem from (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...) Pastor Martin Niemöller. There are several versions.
Quote:
The version inscribed at the New England Holocaust Memorial in Boston, Massachusetts reads:
They came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time no one was left to speak up.
Excuse me, I've been absent from TTLG for a few days and its made me somewhat loquacious. :)
Way back in the 60s, if my slightly hazy memory (I was a young teenager at the time) serves me correctly, there was a genuine feeling that things might change for the better. A feeling perhaps that something could produce the result you're looking for. That people would all pull together rather than in different directions. I think Kennedy's assassination put the kibosh on all that. But there's a lot of rose-tinted glasses involved when you look back to the 60s.
Vivian on 27/2/2008 at 20:06
Yeah, but you're still doing it because it satisfies your sense of how the world should be - even if you do things that are really hard and have very little in the way of tangible reward, you are still basically doing them to try and bring the world closer in line with what you believe it should be. I guess the closest you get is a kind of well considered, responsible selfishness.
Thirith on 27/2/2008 at 20:10
Perhaps, but I don't see anything much coming out of that sort of reasoning that altruism doesn't exist except for cheap sophomore cynicism, dismissing and ridiculing acts of kindness.
Nicker on 27/2/2008 at 20:22
Altruistic Egotism, is the term, I believe.
All "altruistic" acts are selfish at some level. All our interactions are negotiations in some respect. Not necessarily interpersonal. We might be negotiating with karma or some sort of custodial deities, or our internal moral monitor.
Altruism is just self interest with no readily apparent pay off.
But if it comes to a choice between altruistic / mutually beneficial choices or purely selfish ones, the former are usually going to be preferable.
