blacbraun on 1/8/2010 at 07:44
Quote Posted by Sulphur
Bioware should totally do SS3.
Not Bioware, Bethesda. They raised Fallout from the dead so they can do SS.
blacbraun on 1/8/2010 at 07:46
Quote Posted by Sulphur
Stop getting confused, Kokes. Visceral might have done
SS2.5 Dead Space, but Dante's Inferno doesn't even come close.
Bioware could do a far better job. You know what SS2 was missing amidst the sentient AIs, psychotic robots, and crew logs? Dialogue trees.
<img src="http://www.ttlg.com/forums/images/smilies/laff.gif" width="12" height="12">
Who are you going to have Dialog with? The whole point of System Shock games is that you are alone, everyone else is dead or a monster.
Sulphur on 1/8/2010 at 16:00
Valid points. I shall now address them in painfully verbose detail!
1) Instead of triple-posting, you can lump all your replies in the one post. We don't mind!
2) Bethesda and SS3? No.
3) Re: Bioware and dialogue trees -- that's called 'sarcasm'. Also, irony. (Note the little :laff: smiley.)
terrannova on 3/8/2010 at 06:16
When people talk about Dead Space being System Shock 2.5 they are referring to the fact that for the majority of the game you.. are.. alone. On a space station/ship millions of miles away from civilization. It has mutants, it has a a bridge/command deck, it has an infirmary/hospital, it has executive suites, reverse gravity, a tram system, elevator system, reactor core, maintenance, storage, audio logs, video logs, etc. There's a ton of similarities.
What Dead Space fails to capture is the atmosphere of Shock. The sounds in DS is not as good as System Shock 2. I don't remember any music from DS, yet I can remember all the music from Shock 1 & 2. Dead Space doesn't have a rogue AI called SHODAN or Xerxes for that matter. The speaker placement in DS is nothing compared to Shock 2. With my eyes closed I feel like I'm on the UNN Von Braun/Rickenbacker. In DS, I know it's a video game--but with darned good graphics. DS relies more on its graphics than its sound, unlike Shock 2. Shock 1 doesn't count as when it came out it was graphically superior to DooM, the only FPS out at the time that came close.
One thing is for certain. When playing through Dead Space with the lights out, the details cranked, and the volume up I was immediately reminded of one game. That game is System Shock 2.
There's definitely a lot of inspiration from System Shock 2 in Dead Space.
Rumor has it Dead Space 2 takes place on a space station orbiting Saturn...
Sulphur on 3/8/2010 at 07:43
The problem with the definition of it being 'SS2.5' is that the .5 implies some amount of evolution or improvement on SS2, of which DS does neither. Instead, it's a damn fine survival horror game that improves on the Resident Evil formula.
About the atmosphere - they don't have the same atmosphere because they're not necessarily going for the same atmosphere. SS2's horror is more psychological than visceral - witness a hybrid running up to you screaming 'I'm sorry!'. DS is more about the fear of the dark and the things lurking in the depths, waiting for you.
And I don't know about the sound design - DS has more ambient/incidental sounds to put you off-kilter than SS2, like little whispers behind you, dull clangs off in the distance - it's a different sort of atmosphere, again. And there's pretty good positional audio, plus there's the brilliance of the outer space sequences. The music is a very Eliot Goldenthal/Jerry Goldsmith-inspired atonal horror score replete with shocks of string glissandi; it's not techno, and certainly not built for memorable hooks. It's meant to make you feel uncomfortable or underscore sudden attacks (albeit the engine doesn't quite get it right at times).
That said, I'm firmly in the 'SS2 is better' camp. It's a more original, more affecting game. But that doesn't mean I can't like DS for what it does, and does well.
D.W on 6/8/2010 at 16:44
I still care about them because System Shock 2 was released in 1999, before 2000 when games became boring. Today's Western RPGs and JRPGs all bore me, a lot, the System Shock series is, to me, the only FPS/RPG that has done some may things right with the "RPG" thing.
And even if BioShock is the successor, it doesn't replicate Ss2's feel at all. It feels more like a poorly constructed rip-off dumbed down for the kids today.
And System Shock 2 is the sh*t.
polytourist97 on 6/8/2010 at 17:34
Deus Ex came out in 2000 as I recall, but aside from that exception I'd say your post is spot-on.
Absynthe on 1/9/2010 at 21:00
Shock2 was my first FPS/RPG. It also slammed home heavy immersion and a maturity that you didn't always find in other games at the time. SS2 treated you like an adult whereas other games tended to shoot for "Yeeeeeeeee Hawwwwww". It's really hard to forget something that had me sucked in and terrified for 2 weeks. Also, post Shock2 I never really saw any FPS/RPG hybrids. So for me it was a unique game experience that I replayed just last year.
Having said this, my replays of the game have left me feeling less enthralled as the game ages. I find this comes from having played newer games, such as Bioshock, and finding I much prefer the approaches they used for handling the RPG aspects which are more forgiving and easier to follow. Granted I wouldn't say no to a more complex Bioshock but I'm at a loss as to what exactly I would add to a game that has weapon mods, ammo types, splice abilities, talents for modifying character aspects with future upgrade options, ammo management, research, and making sure you have money to buy stuff like balloons, party hats, and booze.
PS - First person to mention Inventory Management will have a Tetris brick dropped on their head. :cheeky:
ZylonBane on 1/9/2010 at 23:01
How about "Implementing all that stuff competently"?
Bioshock's interface soup was a bloody mess, but most people don't care because the game was so easy that in the end it didn't matter.
Absynthe on 2/9/2010 at 14:37
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
How about "Implementing all that stuff
competently"?
Bioshock's interface soup was a bloody mess, but most people don't care because the game was so easy that in the end it didn't matter.
Don't remember having any major interface issues though I did find myself having to repeat actions because something didn't act the way I expected it to. As for the game being easy, I guess it is somewhat easier than Shock2 but I was good at picking a Shoot/Hack build that leveraged both while working towards the Assault Rifle. So, I never really found Shock2 to be hard. The resurrection chambers in Bioshock I didn't like and once the patch came out I turned them off. That's one thing I liked better in Shock2. I did finally think of stuff that could make Bioshock more interesting/complex but I don't think it would belong in this forum.
