Nameless Voice on 10/9/2009 at 08:16
Bad (UK) keyboard
<img src="http://images.maplin.co.uk/full/a53fj.jpg" width="800" height="244">
Yeah, my keyboard broke recently and I haven't been able to find a single good one for sale locally, that's why the keyboard rant mode.
d0om on 10/9/2009 at 13:21
What's wrong with that keyboard? It looks fine to me.. (or was the BAD in reference to the picture, rather than the slash moving?)
Enchantermon on 10/9/2009 at 14:40
Quote Posted by Nameless Voice
What? No, they just make it smaller and put a backslash key there.
I think that may be standard on US keyboards? But the classic UK keyboards have double-height return keys.
Ah, okay. I misunderstood what you were saying.
The pipeline/backslash key above enter does seem to be the US standard, at least on today's keyboards. I know that older ones used to have larger enter keys (the size of the UK ones); I'm not sure where the pipeline/slash was back then. Looking at the picture you posted, though, I'm getting a faint recollection, so that might have been where the US used to put it as well.
Nameless Voice on 10/9/2009 at 15:21
Quote Posted by d0om
What's wrong with that keyboard? It looks fine to me.. (or was the BAD in reference to the picture, rather than the slash moving?)
* Half-sized backspace key.
* Over-sized return key; # key in the wrong position.
* Insert/Delete/Home/End/PageUp/PageDown keys are in the wrong position; likely to hit printscreen instead of insert, etc.
* A key to power off the computer where print screen should be. Turning off your computer when you want to take a screenshot is
fun.
* Sleep key where scrolllock should be - not as much of an issue since scrolllock isn't used much, but still a bad design decision.
* Wrong spacing around arrow keys (?)
Matthew on 10/9/2009 at 15:52
Quote Posted by Nameless Voice
* Over-sized return key
Lies.
heywood on 10/9/2009 at 15:56
Quote Posted by Enchantermon
Ah, okay. I misunderstood what you were saying.
The pipeline/backslash key above enter does seem to be the US standard, at least on today's keyboards. I know that older ones used to have larger enter keys (the size of the UK ones); I'm not sure where the pipeline/slash was back then. Looking at the picture you posted, though, I'm getting a faint recollection, so that might have been where the US used to put it as well.
I'm dating myself here, but yeah, I had that recollection too. So here's a few pics:
The original (
http://www.vintage-computer.com/images/83key.jpg) IBM PC keyboard.
The (
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b8/AT_keyboard.jpg/800px-AT_keyboard.jpg) IBM PC AT keyboard, which was closer to the IBM Selectric typewriter layout.
The IBM PS/2 keyboard, (
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/57/ModelM.jpg/800px-ModelM.jpg) US version, which created the "extended" layout we've more or less been using ever since. Also the (
http://www.preater.com/modelm/images/model-m-front-small.jpg) UK version. That may be where the US and UK split. FWIW, the keyboard supplied with the PS/2 has the best feel of any keyboard I've ever used. Pity nobody makes keyboards like that anymore.
And while we're bitching, I hate the location of the Ctrl key on modern PC keyboards. On most UNIX workstations and AT-era PCs, it was where the Caps Lock key is now, which is a more accessible location. Moving it to the lower left made using Emacs, and UNIX in general, more ergonomically challenging.
Nameless Voice on 10/9/2009 at 16:01
Quote Posted by heywood
FWIW, the keyboard supplied with the PS/2 has the best feel of any keyboard I've ever used. Pity nobody makes keyboards like that anymore.
Just because I came across it recently, you might want to look into something called "(
http://www.daskeyboard.com/) Das Keyboard". It's meant to have that classic IBM keyboard feel - and it even comes with a version with no key labels, which sounds like fun.
I'm not such a fan of loud, clicky keyboards myself, though.
Matthew on 10/9/2009 at 16:27
I would suspect that the UK version was influenced by successful native-produced computers such as the ZX Spectrum 128's layout, particularly the oversized return key.
heywood on 10/9/2009 at 20:00
Thanks for the suggestion. It appears Das Keyboard is actually a rubber dome (membrane) type. But while searching I did come across (
http://www.pckeyboard.com/) Unicomp, who still makes buckling spring keyboards. They even have a "Linux" version with the Ctrl key in the proper place, but unfortunately it's PS/2 only. And I hear ya about the noise - I would never use one at work.
It looks like IBM eliminated the double height return key because they had gotten complaints that backspace was too small. So they made backspace double wide and relocated the backslash where the top of the return key was.
BTW, most netbooks I've seen have reasonable layouts. The only one I struggled with was my friend's Dell Mini 9, because the QWERTY row is lined up directly above the ASDFGH row and not staggered like on every other QWERY keyboard I've ever used.
Nameless Voice on 10/9/2009 at 20:24
Quote Posted by heywood
It appears Das Keyboard is actually a rubber dome (membrane) type.
I thought it had mechanical switches?
Quote Posted by heywood
but unfortunately it's PS/2 only.
PS/2 keyboards are better if you have a PS/2 port - you can have true N-key rollover, whereas a USB keyboard can only ever let you hold a maximum of 6 keys simultaneously.
Quote Posted by heywood
It looks like IBM eliminated the double height return key because they had gotten complaints that backspace was too small. So they made backspace double wide and relocated the backslash where the top of the return key was.
Whereas on British keyboards they made the left shift smaller and moved the backslash there. I always find it useful to have a 'spare' key there to bind shortcuts to.
Quote Posted by heywood
BTW, most netbooks I've seen have reasonable layouts.
I just don't like the way they love to scatter the insert/delete/home/end/pageup/pagedown keys around the keyboard, sometimes even omitting them if the laptop has a numeric keypad. The rest is usually "okay".
