Vaarok on 10/9/2001 at 23:03
H'lo there,
You all probably do not know of me, as I am a lurker, but I have begun developing a grand idea for gathering a cadre of skilled technicants and creating a fan-made sequel/prequel, probably as a mod from some other game engine.
My idea is that, as we know the Centauri are well established against the Hegemony at the end of TNSFC, that we create Jovian Wars, chronicling the original war between the hogs and the clans. Think of it, one part the visual vtyle from Aliens, one part Heavy Gear, stir in some TN and starsiegeishness, Metalsuits, battles on all the jovian moons, mining tools refitted into weapons...
I think it could be some fun.
I've done some preliminary design frameworks, concept sketches for what a metalsuit would be like (retroengineered PBA crossed with a powerloader) and such, but in an effort to gain skilled people (I've no technological skill beyond skinning, idea creating and writing), I offer this intro/voiceovery thing as bait:
Jovian Wars
In 2740 we finally accomplished what we all thought was the dream of the whole human race. The Earth was finally at peace. Bar brawls, kids hitting each other on playgrounds, maybe. But for once the whole species seemed to have gotten itself together and stopped fighting. Race, gender, homeland, nobody cared and everybody was pretty much equal.
But humans screw things up. The Publicians were created by the UN to stop the brushwars, and to get that objective view, they got raised as outsiders. Yeah, they fixed war and poverty and disease. Free health care, education, all that. But they did it by force. They used nations against each other until they collapsed, then came in with handouts for the survivors as they picked up the pieces and put them back together- their way.
The Terran Hegemony. Totalitarian communism where the average person is trained not to know history or care about government, just work as a cog in the machine.
When they had Earth and Luna, they didn't have much. They'd muscled, brainwashed, and tricked three-fourths of the species, sure. But stayin down the 'well was a choice, even back then. The smart ones had already left, gone up and out- Novy Jerusalem on Venus, Ares Base on Mars, and then us, waay out here in the Zeus Belt. We were the strong ones, goin out when we had the chance and never coming back, even though we sold our ore and ice every day above their heads. But we weren't just strong, we weren't just smart, we were a symbol. Some folks groundside weren't quite bred into sheep, and for them we were hope. Out here in the Moons, where a rip 'll decomp you and spray your pureed, freeze-dried guts through a two inch tear and you've gotta fight your rock for every moly of oxygen you breathe and mine every drop of water you drink. Yeah. We were hope, and that just shows how sad it really was down there.
So some came out, maybe late compared to our granfolks, but still appreciated. Some of 'em died, some adapted. We always needed more hands, even when things got tight we'd let another into our pressures. Mother nature takes no prisoners when she kills, and she kills often out here. But the strongest survive. We thought Earth and Luna would either stay behind or die off, and it all didn't matter that much to us.
Now we gotta care. Seventeen hours ago Ganymede caught the newsbeam. Terran stormtroopers occupying Venus. Forced resocialization for every man, woman, and child. The Vens fought back, and then the earthers used a nuke on New Jerusalem. Forty million dead in two hours when the dome blew. Millions more'll probably die, suffocating in their pressures. The Hogs cracked the dome, and New Jerusalem has been 'formed for a hundred fifty years. They haven't had municipal air for half a century, and now even the Vens that sealed in time will still die.
We're not any safer out here. Four years from now and it might be us.
But we have time to prepare. My da lost his arm working our stake, chopping ice in a shaft so we could eat and breathe. If the Heggies come out here, all we've built gets taken away. Shared, they say, for the better good. Da didn't lose his arm chopping adamantite and corobellium for the corpers and letting the 'gees die. He coulda, but instead he chopped for ice, to feed our share of the insystem 'gees who ran from the Heggies. And I'll be damned if I'll give up that stake to those same damn Earthers, or even work it myself for them, just because the unwashed masses on the homeworld need food plants and fusion generators to power all the little people and their little shoeboxes apartments they cram into in their giant "habitation complexes".
We've got a chance the Venusians didn't. Four years warning. What you do, well, that's up to you.
Me, my Harris-VP90 lasercutter might be meant to dig corobellium rock, but I bet a hog hull ain't that much tougher. I rig my telescope to the main bore and one load of Hogs will never touch my dirt. My skel has standard plating. Lasfrac cowlings might be meant to stop a wild bolt from a lasercutter and Antimet reactive armor to stop falling pebbles from out-orbit, but I bet they'll stop earther railguns and lasers right well too.
Currald just called in. Titan, Callisto, and Ganny are already arming. Skels and suits are already being double-armored and their mining tools and demo charges are being cut up and jury rigged into weapons.
As for me, I'm not part of the Glorious Organism of the Human Species.
I'm Jolanth Harper, and I say Io fights too.
Saam on 17/9/2001 at 18:08
*bump*
Shadowcat on 18/9/2001 at 01:11
Nice idea!!
The lower-tech suits could also give the game a greater focus on tactics (with appropriate enhancement/reworking of the A.I.) which could be a good thing.
Weapons wouldn't be as powerful, but then neither would the armour, so it should still balance decently. Perhaps there might be more physical projectile weapons in this era. I can't remember what the history says about such things (if anything.)
Good stuff.
Vaarok on 18/9/2001 at 11:28
Base ideas for vehicles, Skels, weapons and eqpt:
Ingame object/vehicle/people thesis: outdoor FPS or sim engine with drivable vehicles would be ideal. Such would fit the terrain and mechanical requirements well, and also allow for damage to the skel operator separate of machine. [already looks like Tribes2 may be the choice]
Hardpoint loadouts via an external (briefing) menu system would be favorable, but allow for pickup of weaps and equipment ingame, if possible.
Mechanical damage should scored via a combination of Armor (which protects from any damage below its value and only degrades somewhat with each damaging hit),and Integrity (internal electronics and things, the quintessential "health bar"). [possible nesting of Vehicle Armor/Vehicle Integrity : Suit Armor/Suit integrity might be cool if drivables possible] Damage repair is slapdash welding on of more armor during a lull in combat, and internals much more difficult to repair (if at all). Pressure loss from armor breaches would be an interesting thing to try, depending on the level of complexity possible/noticeable by controls, coding, and engine.
marginally enterable (cargo and mining areas), segment-destructable buildings would also be nice. Pressure loss should be every bit as phenomenal as a fireball in air.
* * *
Jovian thesis: heavy construction equipment modified into weaponry. Everything should be tough and utilitarian, though occasionally with a wild individualized paint scheme or something. Some more technologically advanced designs may be less effective in combat because of their nonmilitary origin, making this the best side for trying wierd combos of late game techs and early game techs. all designs are big, blocky, powerful looking, and primarily earthtone color schemes. Scratched paint and dirt should be obvious. they should look somewhat worn and patched from a long lifetime of heavy use, but not battered-and-nearly-falling-apart.
JSkels
Regular Suit: civvie, generic pressure suit.
Heavy suit: working civvie/ light infantry.
Extra heavy suit: demo civvie, medic, heavy weap infantry
Shell suit: dangerous work civvie, pilot/Hwep infantry
Golem: the medium of mediums. El generico. Grunt Digger.
Titan: faster and heavier, more power, leaper unit, slight tradeoff in armor. Chief digger.
Atlas: huge, powerful, hunched digging machine. Heavy weapon platform with only moderate armor. Walking backhoe.
Samson: medium with speed, tough armor, good power, leaper unit, but can carry less weaponry. Walking industrial loader/digger
Marathon: light, fast, surprisingly good armor, lousy power, mediocre weapon load, leaper, good sensors. Prospector
Trabajdor: slightly slower speed, better than average armor, excellent weapon load, moderate power.
Addtn'l names: Vulcan and Haephestos (for the lava moon?)
Jvehs:
quad: four wheeler
Crawler truck: 6-by, blocky
Heavy crawler truck: 18 wheeler dumptruck, very blocky
Cargo crawler: very big truck, blocky like above
-Repair center: Cargo Crawler with repair bay and crawling with mechanics?
Hauler: a flatbed Cargo that can carry many things
Transport: basically the APC from Aliens, sans turret.
Spider Crawler: [strider-esque] eight legged mobile coring machine. heavy laser AA and firesupport after modification. suprisingly weak armor.
Hopper: small VTOL assay craft with improvised bombs
Vulture: heavy mining carrier, impromptu dropship- a container with jets and a cockpit like in BFE
Venusian Thesis: The Venusian refugees bring just enough of their own stuff for it to be noticed and different enough to be apparently nonjovian. Color should be greenish or bluish and shiny, with a generalized smooth and curved appearance. Their stuff should be slightly higher tech than the Jovs, but rarer, and therefor mostly cobbled into Jovian. Thus it should again be noticeable because of said stylistic differences. their skels and suits should be thinner and more supple, or at least appear more flexible without the bulkiness common to the Jovian vehicles and skels.
Vskels:
Regular Suit: civvie, maybe NPC infantry. looks like blobs of play-doh squished over a person
Heavy suit: trooper. almost decent protection against some of the weaker small arms, slightly spiny, bigger version of above.
unnamed skel: tough, fast , only ok power, barely ok weapons. probably an external service skel refitted to carry a self def wep.
Vvhes:
Sidewinder: ground-effect hovercraft with a gun or mine dispenser, very fast and high integrity.
Forager: basically fodder for an escort mission. harvests chem. snow (methane, ammonia, etc.) on that ice moon. CnC tib harvester with bigger tires and base truck chassis.
Hog thesis: real military. heavy reliance on machines. heavy defenses. better out in the open, poor off road handling, espec. htanks and lesser degree, skels.
Regular Suit: civvie, trooper. Good protection
Protector: medic, trooper, better protection
Defender: Mini-skel, very tough, has a single heavy weapon
Prometheus: fast, weak, leaper, excellent sensors, sniper oriented
Kymerra: medium, good weapons and good power, low armor.
Kereberos: heavy, tough, intentional weapon of war and should reflect same
all vehicles are GEV or flyers. hovercraft of one sort or another.
Tank: hovertank with a big gun and rockets FAST
Heavy Tank: double weapons of Tank, but slower
Drone Fighter: 4m VTOL flyer w/ a gun
Drone Scout: sniper version
Drone Bomber: bombs
Attack VTOL: G-police esque helicopter w/out blades, very nasty. like a longbow apache. [afghanistan rebels "we don't fear the russians, but we do fear their helicopters]
Carrier: APC & flatbed in one.
* * *
Weapon Thesis: The jovs are miners. the've got some tough gear and four years of prep time to jerryrig it into weapons. explosives, lasers, etc should make decent and plentiful improvised weapons, albeit hampered by unreliability, inaccuracy, and effective range. Ganymede Research Base and venusian refugee technology is more advanced and effective when available midgame, but also rarer.
Jovian Weapons:
Skel Manipulators: crunch, punch, rip
Heavy cargo manip, digger bucket: crush better, forklift tongs or backhoe bucket
Slicing blade, various types: Rock Saw, tool works good against enemies at close range
Corer: compact pulse laser/pulsed particle beam. pulsar grandad. medium of medium weapons.
Cutter: small beam laser, cumulative damage means every few ms damage per ms increases. (huge heavy borer version is the crawler cannon)
Inductor: large sized microwave mining tool. short range, conical effec, bypasses armor and hurts integrity directly. Thermal Disruptors graddaddy, power hog. Midgame tech.
Stapler: medium sized slow firing, shotgun-ish feel, high damage, small clip, short range, one slug projectile.[a la Event Horizon]
Piledriver: large sized heavy railgun weapon with abysmal accuracy and unreal damage, very few rounds and slow reload. early midgame
Digging Cannon: medium sized low power grenade launcher with small blast radius but decent/slow ROF and mediocre ammo cap. midgame
EPI rifle (explosive projectile inductor): large, fires a very fast shell that explodes on contact. suprisingly accurate. very little ammo and very slow [but ominously loud and with detailed animations] reload. A la Descent II railgun with exploding bullets. mid game ganymede tech
EDW: medium size, huge power draw, shoots ball lightning. very late game ganymede tech
Panzerfaust: untrustworthy inaccurate bazooka. slow reload. midgame tech.
Mortar: slightly more trustworthy mortar. regular sight should disappear and a level planar grid with a diminishing ranging dot if implementable. midgame tech.
various grenades, satchel charges, mines, etc.
* * *
Jovian Tech:
Thesis: again, mining tech mixed with Ven and Ganny innovation.
Leaper unit: jumpjets
Loop powerpack: one-shot capacitor
cold fusion generator: large bulky primitive dynamo
Sensors: sensors (NOT STANDARD , _NO_ IFF)
patcher kit: repair kit/electronics kit
oxy tank: required for long sorties or after a breach -possible or just a "quest item"?
coms gear: coms gear
salvage beacon: tags area for salvage if possible
pickup beacon: tags area so retrieval craft can be close by
scoutabout: wire-guided scout scuttler?
Thumper: seismic mineralogical sensor thingy, earthquake generator?
Mags: added ammo
* * *
Ven weaps:
Plascaster: pulsar, good med-high performance weapon, great damage but power hungry. late midgame tech
Gauss Railgun: machine gun with range but loses accuracy from recoil. late game tech
* * *
Hog weaps and tech:
permutations of all above, but with powerful sniper weapons, cannons, semiautos, and rockets.
and a Heavy Particle Cannon.
