Myoldnamebroke on 28/3/2007 at 15:01

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The Thatcher neoliberal right was a 'blip' if you look at Tory party history. They aren't a party of ideology, they're a party whose reason to exist to to govern. It's small-c conservatism, holding things as they are, keeping Britain 'how it used to be' and so on. It was Macmillan, a Tory PM, who first spoke of the 3rd way - a common-sense middle path between the extremes of socialism and the unrestrained free market.

SD on 28/3/2007 at 17:09

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UK politics is in a bit of a funny place at the moment, because all three main parties occupy what could be called the middle ground of politics. I just see it as ultimate justification that those of us who were already in that middle ground were right all along ;)

That said, there are still considerable differences between all three parties, and one would be well within their rights to think (as I do) that Blairism and Cameronism are positions occupied simply for political expediency. Certainly, the average Labour member is some way to the left of Tony Blair and the average Tory is to the right of David Cameron. I mean, even Tony Blair was to the left of Tony Blair prior to becoming leader, and David Cameron authored a particularly nasty and xenophobic election manifesto just two years ago. Even now, the Labour government is implementing policies that are positively Stalinist in their illiberalism, while David Cameron is moving the Tories to a new, more right-wing grouping within the European Parliament.

So if you scratch the surface, you'll still find the old parties beneath, the same Labour MPs wanting to clamp people in chains for not doing what the government tells you to do, the same Tory MPs telling racist jokes. It's just that in order to become electable, they've had to steal lots of our policies.

Parker'sSire on 29/3/2007 at 03:24

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:laff: You should stop making guesses; very bad for a lawyer to be making bad guesses.

I think you've gotten so used to the enjoyable bullshit that gets flung around here that you've forgotten how to actually read the words that someone has written (or I've forgoten how to say/write them effectively).
The only things I meant to say concerning myself were that I won't vote based on political party anymore, that I believe that many solutions to problems don't lie at the extremes of 2 predominant political ideologies.
And that the 2 political parties in the US do seem to me as if they exist to oppose the other. that's just an opinion/feeling based on how things seem to have changed since I was a kid.

I wasn't talking about "how it works". I was talking about what voters might think.
And many people I talk with truly don't believe a word that any politician says, and don't feel that the parties have much credibility.
You can like it or not, but that's what a whole lot of US citizens believe.

Everything else I said came from conversations with people I've met or know. Every example I gave came from someone real.
If I or they are, to you, "misguided", then it serves my intent.

I am not trying to analyze a political system, as many people here do.
As a voter who finds the intricacies, phoniness, and percieved or real deception of politics and politicians distasteful at best, I chose to simply voice what opinions I've heard from some average voters; not people who pretend to know all about those political intricacies.

I have no need to win points here. There's no one I need to impress.

But...

... I don't like being called "not very intelligent" by arrogant, know-it-all, punks.


Wow. And I just repeated the opinions voiced to me by someone else.

-I was a card-carrying liberal when you were 5 years old, kid.
-I was in Tri-State mathematics competitions when you were an infant.
-I couldn't make it and had to turn down an invite to a party at Timothy Leary's when you were 9.
-I was a published author in the Journal of Experimental Biology when you were 11.
-I was a professional musician, had my name on pressed vinyl, and was up for an ASCAP song writing award when you were 13.
-I took my dual-major degree in Physiological Psychology and Vertebrate Zoology; and student-taught Comparative Vertebrate Anatomy and Introductory Psychology as an undergrad while taking and auditing grad courses in Biochemistry and Scanning Electron Microscopy.
-I chose not to study law because I found the subject matter and the smugness and arrogance of many practitioners I knew to be, at times, boring, and other times repellent. Unfortunately neccessary, but still repellent.
- Screw the rest of the years... Now I happily teach computer tech and certification classes to 16-24 yr olds, many of whom, I'd venture to guess, have seen more of a different "real world" than most 200K NY lawyers or ex-scientist-musicians-etc could probably ever hope to.
(But that's just an uneducated guess.)
- I've successfully been many things and done a lot of shit...
I've had some fun.

to paraphrase you,
- Actually - based on some of the shit you've written, my guess is that you are a (http://www.ttlg.com/forums/member.php?u=11064) self proclaimed pretentious Structured Finance Attorney.

so, in my own biased opinion,
- I win.



And besides, I know I've written shit. And so has most everybody at TTLG. It makes me smile.


If you would read my post closely, you'd see that I stated that the talkshow host "likes to repeat the idea that...". I never said that it originated with him, nor does he claim that. In fact he thinks it came from Churchill.
However, I did read your post closely and noted that you added that note covering your bases about the quote possibly not being Churchill's.
And it isn't Churchill's.

I'm curious, do you believe that there are only 2 possible ideologies and that the US political parties cover all the ideological bases?
I wasn't a philosophy or political science major.

And explain, please, why there is such a large number of non-registered "independents" in the US. Are their beliefs and desire to be part of neither party insignificant and meaningless? Please address the point that so many US voters don't feel that they belong at either end of the 2 party ideologies; even if those parties find themselves moving closer to the middle. (which you say is because of campaign contributions, others ITT say it's because that's where they'll get the votes.)

Do you deny that there are people in the US who are, as SD put it "in that middle ground", or are you saying that only true Democrats and true Republicans exist in the US and that everyone else is delusional?

Remember, I didn't go to law school, so I'm always willing to admit I'm wrong and learn something new.

Muzman on 29/3/2007 at 04:44

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Back off man! He's a scientist.

Sorry, I just had to say that

Rug Burn Junky on 29/3/2007 at 05:33

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Beg all you want, I ain't wasting my time. You're just generally blabbering, and your observations are trite, not particularly coherent or compelling, and most definitely, not very interesting.

So congrats, you've successfully managed to pilot this train to I-don't-give-a-shitsville.


(http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1090945&highlight=smug#post1090945) None successfully, big guy.