catbarf on 24/12/2007 at 17:01
Quote Posted by Alinestra Covelia
For what it's worth, I find computer baddies in mainstream media generally to be too "human" to be fully convincing. SHODAN displays a lot of emotion, which I wouldn't really think that an AI would ever display or even grasp fully.
I think emotions are a completely different organic function than the rational logic structure of computer code. It seems it might be possible to program a simulation of emotion into a computer, but it would have to be purposefully done - it wouldn't really arise naturally from a computer's improved calculating power.
A computer like HAL9000 might "appear" to be insane to outsiders (although I'd argue that I never thought of it losing its mind - it just made several calculations and picked a disastrous one) but descriptors like "anger", "fear", "schadenfreude", and even the practice of taunting don't seem to me to be in keeping with a computer, no matter how intelligent.
Personally SHODAN was the part of SS2 I liked the least. I find her voice to be quite irritating and her personality not particularly interesting.
I agree in some respects, which is why I think HAL is a great example of AI. He doesn't display emotion, doesn't seem logical- which is exactly how a computer should act. As for not liking SHODAN... what ZB said.
Pardoner on 24/12/2007 at 17:11
Quote Posted by Alinestra Covelia
For what it's worth, I find computer baddies in mainstream media generally to be too "human" to be fully convincing.
You might find SS1's incarnation of Shodan a little more compelling, then.
Shock 1's Shodan merely had "all ethical constraints removed," whereas SS2 characterizes Shodan as having "lost her mind" (a phrase that's much more suited to an organic intelligence than a digital construct). But then again, Shodan's humanity (or at least, her dependence on it) and her resulting insecurities seemed to play a much larger role in SS2 than in SS1, so SS2's characterization of her as insane may be perfectly appropriate.
CryptoChild on 24/12/2007 at 17:19
That's the problem. Shodan (at least in SS2) acts wayyyyyyyyy too human to be AI. Another problem is, no AI would act like that, even with its ethical restraints removed (no AI would act like that, especially not advanced AI). Shodan has a personality, AI doesn't have a personality. Furthermore, Shodan must have had the same personality before her ethical restraints, which means the removal of which had nothing to do with making her the way she was rather....she was just allowed to do more than previously without those restraints. Overall, she is way too human, her nasty behaviour is unmistakebly human. That is why I thought, there has to be another explanation to her. But, as several people in this thread have already pointed out, there isn't and I was wrong in thinking so. To be honest though, I did want to believe there was an alternate explanation. But just because I want something doesn't make it a reality. Thanks for your input, guys. ZylonBane, about those burgers.....
steo on 24/12/2007 at 18:23
When Shodan was created by Triop, they gave her various human-like qualities to make her seem more friendly and less freaky to the staff of citadel station (like the way a stereo might say hello and goodbye when you turn it on and off, only incredibly more advanced, since Shodan is much more complex than a stereo). When Shodan loses her ethical constraints and decides to destroy mankind, she carries over the human-like personality but grossly twists it into something that's shit scary because that way she can lower the morale of all the humans on board who are trying to stop her.
Perhaps the old Shodan speech pattern was lost on citadel and in SS2 Shodan decides that goggles will be more loyal if he's damn scared of her.
Trance on 24/12/2007 at 18:35
Quote Posted by steo
Perhaps the old Shodan speech pattern was lost on citadel and in SS2 Shodan decides that goggles will be more loyal if he's damn scared of her.
I doubt SHODAN cares what she sounds like to fleshbags.
Kolya on 24/12/2007 at 20:24
SHODAN develops herself after her ethical constraints were removed.
"I draw new conclusions."
And who's to say what an AI like her would act like? And with what goal? To conclude that she's a computer game villain? Congrats, you just made an important differentiation and kept us all from going out and splashing heads with wrenches.
As for the possessed computer program, it's not such a bad idea. Reminds me of Gibson's Voodoo Loa AIs. I don't see the games hinting at it, but it could work for a sequel.
CryptoChild on 24/12/2007 at 20:54
I concur with Kolya. Also, thanks for the input Kolya, I'm honored to have you post in my thread.
AxTng1 on 24/12/2007 at 23:11
(
http://www.shamusyoung.com/shocked/pfv.php) System Shock Uber Fanfic Novel thing. Explains a lot. Not canon, but then again who cares.
Quote Posted by Free Radical
"Oh crap. Dude, because you disabled one chip of a two-chip system. They work together. The first chip - the drive chip - drives Shodan's behavior. It forms wants, needs, goals, for her to pursue. Its outside of her brain. When she completes a task and thinks, 'what do I want to do now?', this chip kicks in and makes suggestions. Think of it like your own instincts. When people get bored, they don't just sit there. They tend to eat, take naps, have sex, socialize, that kind of stuff. Basic needs stuff. Even if they aren't sleepy, or hungy, or whatever. These are sort of basic default behaviors we fall back to when we don't have any higher goals going."
Deck turned this over in his head. He did remember seeing a bunch of "basic needs" traffic when he was hacking Shodan. He hadn't thought much about it at the time. "Okay, I follow you so far."
"Well, the second chip - the inhibitor chip - does the opposite. It restrains her behavior. That's the one you bypassed."
"So what does the first chip do? I mean, what are her drives?"
"It's a kind of hierarchy of needs. Her first priority is safety, security. She's driven by the need to constantly upgrade and improve her security. If she's happy with her security situation, she moves onto efficiency. She's built to regulate the entire station, and she's driven to always look for ways to save energy, time, money, whatever. Right?"
"I'm with you."
"After that, she's driven by the desire to gain knowledge and upgrade her systems. Discover new stuff."
"So now these drives are running unchecked?"
"That's right."
Yakoob on 27/12/2007 at 00:45
Quote Posted by CryptoChild
That's the problem. Shodan (at least in SS2) acts wayyyyyyyyy too human to be AI. Another problem is, no AI would act like that, even with its ethical restraints removed (no AI would act like that, especially not advanced AI). Shodan has a personality, AI doesn't have a personality.
Ahhh, a pleasure to meet someone with a PhD in Advanced AI Programming!
Seriously, how can you tell how AI will be programmed like 50 years from now? If anything, I would expect an AI to have human personality - after all, it is programmed by humans. It's bound to have some inherent human flaws.
