Crowley on 11/8/2002 at 16:57
This is a rather complicated issue. For example: what is an acceptable price for freedom? Which is worse: total chaos and losing innumerable lives in exchange for total freedom, or global peace and economical prosperity without any chance to affect how you are governed and how things are run?
Okay, that was taking it a bit to the extreme. Personally I preferred the Dark Age ending but considered Tong to be rather delusional. Really, there were large centralized governments centuries before we had electronical communications!
The Kurgan on 11/8/2002 at 21:39
Quote:
Originally posted by Daffyd
I don't agree. If everything about the world was the same except that a computer does the job of a local council, then It would still leave the elite positions open for the taking- People would form their own little tyrannies. There are 2 waya around it: give Helios power to hold people down (perhaps an army of intelligent bots), or to change the day to day living of every man so as to create a sort of Utopia like those in classic science fiction. So what happens when the number cruncher decides that the best thing for road maintenance is to remove useless people from society: Euthenasia for disabled! Euthenasia for over-40's! Euthenasia all 'round! Helios on his own would act like that yes, but that is the reason he wanted to merge with JC. To know what humanity really wants.
If a part of God was human, then he would know exactly how we want to live and have the power to make it perfect for us.
rachel on 12/8/2002 at 12:52
Hey, remember Agent Smith. Basically he said:
<i>"The first Matrix was a perfect world where everybody would be happy. It was a disaster."</i>
JC Denton should remember these words :p
-A.
The Kurgan on 12/8/2002 at 21:16
"Some believed that we lacked the programming knowledge to describe your perfect world, others like myself believe that you Humans define your perfect world through misery and suffering."
The former is ruled out because JC merged with Helios, but then the latter, well, i still don't fully understand it.
BadNacho on 13/8/2002 at 16:10
In area 51 paul said that people were just listening to Helios in Hong Kong. They looked at him kind of like a god. It opened the roads, closed government and triad facilities, and people just obeyed.
Police would be mostly unnecessary because Helios would be able to see everything. If someone did something Helios didn't approve of he could either send a bot or just cut him down with a turret. With JC integrated with Helios you can be sure that people wouldn't just be randomly arrested. Helios can also not be corrupted as a police force can become. It would be a perfect system of law.
tungsten on 13/8/2002 at 18:41
SHODAN rules!:cheeky:
The Kurgan on 13/8/2002 at 19:53
Quote:
Originally posted by BadNacho Helios can also not be corrupted as a police force can become. It would be a perfect system of law. Ah, yes. How great would that be? I just read in the paper today that a woman got a parking ticket for parking on a double yellow line. 3 days BEFORE they were painted.
It makes me physically sick. :mad:
Amorpheus on 13/8/2002 at 20:21
Quote:
Originally posted by The Kurgan I just read in the paper today that a woman got a parking ticket for parking on a double yellow line. 3 days BEFORE they were painted.Ouch. :laff:
Daffyd on 14/8/2002 at 01:12
Quote:
Originally posted by The Kurgan
Helios on his own would act like that yes, but that is the reason he wanted to merge with JC. To know what humanity really wants.
If a part of God was human, then he would know exactly how we want to live and have the power to make it perfect for us. I wouldn't call Helios GOD for starters. But it would act like a god- it would have all the power, forever, and man-kind would be its pet.
Do you really think that JC is capable anyway? He may be good at shooting but he is far from an expert on the human psyche? His personal skills involve bullets, and being cynical at everyone elses opinions; he occasionally acts nice to get information, but thats about it. He can't even crack a smile.
Just say that through all odds JC would be able to make utopia. Then what. Human progress would only continue in the field of technology. No one would be striving to make society any better because the good life would be handed to them on a silver platter. No one would be striving for anything because there's nothing worth striving for. People would just sit around all day eating grapes and having group sex... sounds like a good life, but its not exactly what I would call
life.
D'Juhn Keep on 14/8/2002 at 14:51
What would you call life then? Working for a living, buying a house, paying off the mortgage, etc? Just because there's nothing worth striving for as you put it, doesn't mean there's nothing to do all day. Why would sports and going out to places, going on holiday to see the architecture or have a good time suddenly stop? In a perfect world, I would see infinite leisure, without the need to work. Time would be given over to having fun or studying, if that's what the person wanted. Maybe that's just me :)
On the original note, I agree that it has to be decided what the WORST thing for humanity is before deciding what the best ending is. I think that Helios could be a good idea, if he just ensures peace and justice for all, not if it becomes a 1984-style Big Brother figure, which I don't think it would, given it's impartiality and JC's morals. The Illuminate ending would mean the world goes on as normal, with wars, terrorism and the rest. Just because this secret orgainsation has learnt its lesson doesn't mean the world will be peaceful.
I never quite got how Tong's plan would have worked. By destroying one facility all global communications will cease? If someone can explain to me how this couldn't be solved by making another hub where communications are routed, or just by not having a hub anymore, I'd like to hear it. But the way I see it currewntly, the world again goes on as normal.
In summary, Helios = best.
