fett on 2/3/2009 at 13:37

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Tupac was fine, but I didn't get the Biggie Smalls thing either. I think it was just because he died young. Still, I don't completely buy the whole Tupac/Thug Life thing either (he was in Digital Underground forchissakes). There's just as much image propping-up in the rap industry as in rock, except white people actually believe it when it's about a rapper (or are just afraid to say they don't).



Big machines will take care of you
Until the fashion fades, and the checks go through
My bankroll's read, and my face is blue
And still they turn their backs on you for someone new
-DT

Starrfall on 2/3/2009 at 18:37

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I think a lot of it is that they were made into figureheads by a "battle" that probably neither of them was really into, and then they both died in the course of it. The drama becomes part of the "legend" and the legend influences how the music is seen. (And also gets bigger as more time passes, I think)

That said, I think Tupac DOES have good flow so neener neener. Aside from that I like his stuff because while you can't always tell unless you're paying attention, a lot of it is less bling and glamor and more about trying to survive and build some sort of life out of the ruins of the ghetto but it can't be done because there aren't a lot of options in the ghetto and so you end up as a thug and that really speaks to a college educated white girl like me.

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98c7cVjMdbc) Lil Homies is a good example. But it seems that maybe you're just not into this particular genre and so I won't be mad if you don't like it.

I don't know as much about biggie but Hypnotize always makes me want to shake my booty. I also don't really think either is OMG THE BEST EVER IF YOU DONT LIKE THEM YOU STUPID

fett on 2/3/2009 at 22:27

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Onyx ftw

Scots Taffer on 3/3/2009 at 05:04

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nigga plz

Muzman on 13/3/2009 at 03:22

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Right then, where was I...

demagogue: yeah all that stuff is great. You forgot one though
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSEfUteiqIQ) Gangstarr's Lovesick Gangstarr, of course, being Guru and DJ Premiere. Strangely this is apparently a remix version. That's the version that came out here, video clip and everything.
US3 is the branch point that went off into that jazz-hiphip genre whose name escapes me. Miles Davis even went there on his last album, which was pretty cool. There was even a few dedicated bands playing it around here. Kinda died off in about '97 though.
Turtle: somewhat aside, I saw Kool Keith once a couple a years ago. It was a pretty terrible show. I thought the guys he brought with him were better. It didn't help that the crowd were all AusChavs. I think I was there with one of the four women in the place who weren't behind the bar. He's alright on record though.
Starry n fett etc; I don't really have anything against Tupac really. Only that California track of his broke down here and I wasn't really paying attention at the time, but he seemed like an interesting character. His death was a surprise. He seemed like one who could just walk away from all that pretty easily. I'm not religiously against G-funk, it was just annoyingly thin at the time. That Lil homies number is cool, I dunno what category that falls into.
I'm an old schooler I guess. I thought it was christmas when (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=762zi8qtrGY) this came out (though their later stuff sounds more contemporary). I love a good (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD9cev252rs) old fashioned sonic sample barrage (I apologise for the bookends on that clip. bleah. But it's on Rage, so that's cool).
When it comes to figuring out who's the 'best', above a basic level of skill you're going to be mostly fine with me. Nearly everyone vaguely famous has a couple of decent dance tracks worth listening to. Biggie's voice and the music backing him is generally meh though, so he's got an uphill climb (I recall Hypnotize from ages ago, but I can't remember which version is the definitive one. Youtube yeilds a million remixes). And I agree the versus aspect between him and Tupac seems artificially based on some abstract measure of skill. Tupac is heaps more accomplished in pretty much every way that counts for me.
I wonder if there's a chart somewhere ranking everyone. I bet Ice Cube isn't even on it, but (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Skd-oLJbC3s) this kind of thing is classic. Not to mention hilarious (the title for one, over the top anger and hating on everything, decry dancing on the <i>funkiest track on the record</i> as well why don't you. On reflection XXX 2 and Are We There Yet? aren't all that surprising).
Anyway, fling more nostalgic links around if y'all want to.