gregor_y on 8/10/2007 at 15:29
Quote Posted by Chuck
Good luck finding SS1 with the original box. Perhaps you should lower your expectations and shoot for a CD only copy.
No need there is ss1 portable working very good on xp even if you get orginal version you might not run it if your not good at running old games sometimes dosbox is enought runs almost all dos games...
Any way if he wants to download ss2 no matter more fans the better...its just important that he will buy ss3 if it ever will see world...
Sorry but i know i might be flamed for it but some games arent worth 50$ to buy them like doom3,hl2 (never buyed them i had them on HD for 1 day) Settlers V (i buyed them becouse i loved them earlier parts and it was mistake) The Guild 2,Lost Planet rotf you could finish them in 1-2 days and someoff them had more bugs than dog shit like guild 2 couldent play it on min details i had to wait for expansion to play it and funnies was expansion was self sufficiant so i could throw my Guild 2 CD into trash and i was scammed becouse i buyed demo...and in Poland 50$=150zł and thats in most cases 15% of monthly wage...and console games 200-250zł and thats too much i understand you dont got $ dont buy it becouse you steel it but honestly is there person who dont use internet to download stuff like crapy mp3 before you buy it think its more and more resobable to download something before you buy it honestly how much movies and new games you enjoy like the ones from old times???
I know its stealling i would be pissed if someone steel something from me thats normal but i wouldent scamm ppl product that lasts for 1-2 days or is not finished and overpriced becouse it quality sucks...
Volitions Advocate on 8/10/2007 at 17:43
Quote Posted by Kolya
Volitions Advocate, if this site is dead and/or populated by flaming egomaniacs then what is it you're doing here? And if your intent was a call to "grow up and be constructive", then why not start with the constructive criticism and growing up yourself? Or do you believe that your outbreak will help your matter?
The OP didn't get flamed for being "new on the forum", or for being a "sub-standard fan". While the flaming was somewhat uncalled for imo, you're making up reasons there. It is a bit stupid to ask an obvious warez question on a forum with a no-warez policy. And that's what ZB aimed at when calling the OP an incompetent pirate.
I mentioned it before, (almost) no one here throws a fit anymore when you download the game. But stupidity is still looked down upon.
I've never told somebody they were stupid or said that i wished they would die in a fire. and I'm not making stuff up, i'm drawing from what I've read all over the forum not just this post.
invariably someobdy asks a question that could be answered in 1 or 2 posts but somebody needs to interject with a derogatory comment that has no helpful value whatsoever and then the thread goes off topic into an argument. much like this one is now. So I apologize for perpetuating it.
You've got to admit I've got a valid point. And honestly.. look at the front page.. last update was august '06?
Anyway.. sorry, I'm done. I suppose if this is an issue for me i'll take my own advice and talk to the moderators.
Kolya on 8/10/2007 at 18:21
VA, (
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113852) here's a thread where a possible renovation of the forum hub (front page) was discussed. Nothing visible has come from that yet, although I wouldn't notice as I rarely visit there.
ZylonBane on 8/10/2007 at 18:38
Quote Posted by Volitions Advocate
You've got to admit I've got a valid point. And honestly.. look at the front page.. last update was august '06?
Who cares? TTLG is all about the forums, which remain quite lively.
Volitions Advocate on 8/10/2007 at 19:14
I just think that if you're worried about what the game dev's think, and want them to keep coming around here. Keeping the forums free from flamers that act like they're in Jr. High is just as important as not encouraging piracy.
RootbeerTapper on 16/10/2007 at 19:17
Piracy is a good thing. If people don't want your product for free you better be worried because how do you exspect to sell it. Without piracy almost 99% of the media in the world would not exist on peoples computers or would be tightly controlled through DRM permissions. File sharing networks would not exist and the information super highway would be nothing more than an intersection with cops monitoring all sides. Information should be free to use and try without limitations otherwise whats the point in using it. Pirated games are not good anyway they usually have files missing that make the game experience the best. You can't stop people from piracy and flaming someone about the subject is not gonna solve anything or make you or anyone else feel better because whether you know it or not you have done piracy before as well just to afraid to admit it because it will ruin your 'image' on this forum.
It's like church. While people are in church their loving and caring and are nice to one another. Once church is over the second they walk out the door their bitching at one another all over again. The 'front' that people portray to others is old, wornout, and lame.
Piracy is not the problem of today its the trading and duplication of games to sell for cash that is real problem. However trading is perfectly legal and downloading a game that you will not likely burn to disc and sell is illegal. They both have the same flaw that the developer gets no money at all. The question is why is one illegal and one legal when they both share the same problem?
If I go to a second hand computer game store do you think I can find the full version of Wolfenstein 3D on CD? Proabably not but you know what? I can find the full version of Wolf3D online through a sharing network. I can DL it and have fun and that is the beuty of piracy. Only a small number of users DL games burn them to disc and sell them but because of their lame ideas the rest of the world suffers for their stupidity.
And yes I can get Wolf3D on ebay or another auction site but what if I am 12 years old and do not have access to a credit/debit card and my parents won't buy it for me what do I do then? That is why piracy will continue to florish because people in different parts of the world demand information, but can't get it either because their government prohibits it or censorship laws or it's not available in their country.
Piracy is continuing to grow and whether you like it or not does not mean you should bitch someone out about it.
Anonymous networks are sprouting up and piracy is now wireless. Once omninet develops companies are gonna take a second look at piracy and use it to their advantage.
Ahkaskar on 16/10/2007 at 20:15
Normally, the developer makes money from the publisher, and the publisher makes money from the retailer. The dev's slice of the pie isn't usually by units sold, which means that unless the dev is big like Epic Megagames, they're managing on publisher "loans" from game to game. In fact, when I "worked" with a (very) small-time game developer, they told me that, unless they published their game themselves, they'd make far less than half of the sale price of each unit. The publisher got the rest.
Basically, the concerns with piracy are this:
*When a game is pirated, that's one less copy that wouldn't be bought from a retailer. Thus, less money to the retailer and fewer units produced by the publisher to replace purchased units.
*When fewer units are produced, it's implied to the publishers (the blood-sucking, statistic lovers that they are) that the game is not popular. When it doesn't sell, they're less likely to support that developer in the future.
*While you're directly hurting the publisher, it indirectly hurts the developer.
However, there comes a point where a game is definitely out of print. The final images have been dispersed to the retailers, and eventually the retailers empty their stock. System Shock 2 is at this point. You can't find it with any major online retailer. Any time anyone wants to know how to get a copy, they're told to go to ebay, like that's actually a good solution.
At that point, piracy only hurts those who look to sell their copy. If ebay is the only place to buy it, those are the only people being hurt. (And, in my opinion, making $50 or more off an eight year old game makes that "hurt" negligible.)
I'm not supporting piracy, here. But we're well past the point where downloading System Shock 2 could hurt Irrational/TTLG/EA. EA doesn't sell or print the game in any way. Thief, on the other hand, can be downloaded like a demo and paid for to activate, through Eidos. (Not that I have any idea how well that works)
System Shock 2 is in a state where the only thing that can come of pirating/downloading this game is an expanded user base and potentially a larger number of people who want a System Shock 3. (We all want an SS3 of sorts at some point, right?) At some point, the number of users playing the game will exceed the number of physical copies, as discs get fried, broken or scratched. What will you do then? Still send people to ebay, when no one is willing to let go of a critically endangered CD?
This is no reason to support piracy here, however. Acceptance seems to somehow imply to people that it's fine conduct. Telling people to go download a game that hasn't been marked free to download will open a floodgate that won't close. It's not clear-cut whether EA would even notice if this forum took that turn, but it's not something to tempt and would devalue this community.
Long story short, don't talk about it but don't throw a fit anytime someone brings it up.
ZylonBane on 16/10/2007 at 20:43
These new members are just so adorable.
