ultravioletu on 29/3/2016 at 07:17
While not exactly ghosting, I play "clean sheet" (zero damage done, zero damage taken, while taking all loot and all pickpockets). Therefore I have no problem with "no kill", actually I like it because it's what makes the game outstanding.
TannisRoot on 29/3/2016 at 14:29
I'm more a fan of self-imposed conducts (no kills or no KOs or no alerts) than difficulty enforced restrictions. That said the combat in Thief is not its strong suite and not what I would call fun so I generally avoid it and blackjack only when the convenience of removing a guard outweighs the annoyance of waiting for an opening. It doesn't really affect me but because it does affect some player's fun with the game, I'm not that thrilled with it.
That said, in it's defense it does have some value in defining Garrett's character.
WileECoyote383 on 30/3/2016 at 01:41
The "no kill" objectives are less about difficulty and more about immersion. Realistically, Garrett is a master thief, and he should never need to kill anyone, so littering a mansion with dead bodies makes his "master thief" status less plausible. Aside from skill, killing people would bring unwanted attention, and the next place he tried to rob would probably be a lot more heavily guarded, so he would avoid killing people at all costs to keep a low profile. As such, in order to take the world seriously, Garrett has to not kill people, and Expert is the mode in which the game's world and your role in it is taken the most seriously. On lower difficulties, the realism is compromised to give less skilled players a fighting chance. On Normal, you have more health than a fully armored guard, and in many of the earlier levels in Thief 1 you don't even have to get back out of the mansion/prison/tomb that you're infiltrating, the mission just ends as soon as you get your main objective. Neither of these are realistic, and they take away from the credibility of the game world, but they make the game easier for less skilled players. On Expert, the crutch is knocked out from under you and the challenge is raised in exchange for a more believable, immersive experience than lower diffculties, and not killing people is part of that experience. Furthermore, the game will actually revoke this rule if a situation presents itself where it makes sense for Garrett to not be concerned about killing people, which it does once in the final level of Thief 2, Sabotage at Soulforge, which further proves that these rules are primarily in place for immersion and realism. Even if you were allowed to kill people, I never would, so it's not terribly relevant to me, but it is definitely a positive addition to the game, and one of the things that makes Thief unique compared to other stealth games and games in general.
As for fan missions, it depends on the mission. It's not something you should mindlessly add just because the original games had it, but rather you should look at the situation the player is put in and think "would Garrett (or whatever character you play as) care about not killing people in this situation?" For example, in the excellent FM Left for Dead, not killing anyone is only an optional objective, since realistically Garrett is undead (he's a walking skeleton) and doesn't give a damn about whether or not he kills people because he has nothing to gain by not killing people, so it's up to the player to decide whether or not they kill. In other fan missions where Garrett is very much alive and wants to keep it that way, having the requirement to not kill people be an objective makes a lot more sense. Since many fan missions deviate significantly from traditional Thief settings and scenarios, as well as occasionally starring characters other than Garrett, there are many cases where being allowed to kill would make sense (I haven't played very many fan missions, so I can't give too many specific examples), so it's up to the designer to think about what suits their mission and craft the objectives accordingly.
Yandros on 30/3/2016 at 19:42
That's very well stated.
nickie on 30/3/2016 at 20:18
Yes it is.
I don't kill at all if I can avoid it. Spiders don't count. In a similar kind of way, I generally put anyone I knock out on a bed in the hope that if anyone sees the body, they'll think it's asleep. (Yes, I know it doesn't work that way but it makes it more realistic for me.)
Renault on 30/3/2016 at 20:36
On the heels of nickie's comments, that's probably a conversation worth having. What do you apply the "no kill" rule to? While I always try to not kill anyone/anything, there are groups of AI who are exempt - spiders, frog beasts, bug beasts, haunts, zombies, phantoms, fire elementals, and of course any robot. I still prefer to avoid them, but I won't restart a game if I kill one of them accidentally or otherwise. If it's a real human, like a guard or a servant, I'll almost always stop playing and reload. I can't have that on my conscience.
And only cowards kill burricks. :cool:
User 205 on 31/3/2016 at 10:51
I always kill spiders. Even if I just could walk past them. They are my mortal enemey in any Thief game and they will always get a huge broadhead arrow in their face.
I also generally avoid killing the Tricksters minion but Zombies and Ghosts are fair game. They are already dead after all.
Esme on 31/3/2016 at 11:07
Not killing is why I play Thief
Except for spiders, all spiders must die :ebil:
nickie on 31/3/2016 at 13:03
I'm definitely with you on that one, Esme.
Quote Posted by Brethren
And only cowards kill burricks. :cool:
Ooops. I used to kill burricks till I learned I could knock them out. I used to kill zombies till I found they got up again and chased me all over. Much easier to sneak past. Bug beasts have got to go though.
Tafferwocky on 1/4/2016 at 00:14
When undead of any sort are involved, my Garrett turns into a Paladin-Warrior zombie slaughterer. Especially if there are fire arrows and holy water lying about. The explosions are just too satisfying.
Oh and I hate spiders, so I save a broadhead for each of them.
Quote Posted by Brethren
And only cowards kill burricks.
Burricks are evil.
