Ziemanskye on 21/1/2007 at 23:27
Didn't say they were a good reward.
Especially given how plentiful they were, and a greater mix on the grenade types would've been nice instead, but I guess they were hoping for a sort of "it makes sense to find one of these here" thing.
Balance of reward as player utility/fun versus world engagement/coherence. That's got to be a bitch to try and get right.
Silkworm on 22/1/2007 at 07:58
Quote Posted by Ziemanskye
The complaint is mostly for having to turn away from a reward that you should be able to take.
A lot of multitools and lockpicks are in odd places, put there as a reward for exploring the game. That you then can't take the reward is annoying - it's not about it being realistic, or inconvenient, or gamebreaking, it's just a blow to the pride and sense of self-expression that for any effort you put in you've got nothing for it because you can't take what you should have got for the effort.
Right on the money.
Jashin on 23/1/2007 at 02:15
Having more than 20 constitutes "hording".
BTW I think exploration is its own reward.
ilweran on 23/1/2007 at 10:14
Quote Posted by Jashin
Having more than 20 constitutes "hording".
BTW I think exploration is its own reward.
As someone who tends to hoard stuff- my first play of Deus Ex was almost without any use of augs just in case I ran out of biocells- I think a limit is fine. If you could carry as much as you liked of something it would just get silly.
Ziemanskye on 23/1/2007 at 10:25
Exploration in itself is only rewarding if you find something.
True, it doesn't have to be something you can pick up and take with you: a nice view, some random readable, even just an NPC doing their job can all count.
But when what you find is another gray wall and a lockpick/multitool placed as a reward it's kind of annoying. And the main reason I even had the full set of either is because of exploring - usually through finding alternative ways into places rather than any "hording" action of specifically not using them.
Also, since ilweran posted while I was typing, how exactly does it get sillier when it's just a collection of something you aren't using? That's like saying Garrett in Thief is silly because he can carry over 1000-loot. Or Sonic having more than one ring.
It's much less immersion taxing to just let you carry it in the first place than have to trek back (if you even can) to get it later should you use your collection up. We may have to go back for bigger things we can't carry, and that back and forth may make up a lot of real life, but that doesn't mean it's fun.
Silkworm on 24/1/2007 at 05:11
Quote Posted by Jashin
Having more than 20 constitutes "hording".
BTW I think exploration is its own reward.
Thats perfectly fine, in that case give the player a tough decision as to whether or not (s)he can pick up the item, and make the multitools take up inventory spaces. But don't punish the player for conserving resources. I would be perfectly happy if the multitools were scarcer and took up more space (ie could only be stacked up to 5) - but I'm not happy with the arbitrary limits, let me decide what items are important and what to sacrifice.
And no, exploration is not its own reward; if that were true, I would just load up empty maps with noclip and just fly around through walls and trees taking screenshots. Games are about meaningful choices, consequences and rewards.
DarkThiefsie on 24/1/2007 at 11:12
Better AI
It would be cool if they incorporated team AI into deus Ex - like the clone commandos in Republic commando, but you fighting them. This would also give the player a better incentive to be stealthy (OR, on the other hand, to fight them).
Oh and a better stealth system too - not similar to Thief (that would be weird in a futurstic game like Deus Ex (futuristic...or is it already here? Dum Dum daaaah) but perhaps one like in the Rainbow Six series (e.g. camoflage that works, heatbeat sensors, intel (such as satellite recon) - all of this can be used in conjunction with some of the stuff Deus Ex already has (thermal vision/goggles - flares)).
But I guess i'm just wishin eh?
ilweran on 24/1/2007 at 13:39
Quote Posted by Ziemanskye
Also, since ilweran posted while I was typing, how exactly does it get sillier when it's just a collection of something you aren't using?
Ok, it would get silly when I play it :p
"Oh no I only have 50 biocells, I'd better be really careful and not use any augs", or "hmm, shall I open that? I only have 100 lockpicks left. I might run out..."
Ziemanskye on 24/1/2007 at 15:55
Okay, I'll concede it could get kind of silly in that sort of kleptomanic excess.
The seperation perhaps between collecting them for finding it and finding it because you wanted to collect it. There are games where I'll metaphorically look under every stone just to see what's there - I just don't consider DX to be one of those, but it might be for you.
ilweran on 24/1/2007 at 21:05
Quote Posted by Ziemanskye
I just don't consider DX to be one of those, but it might be for you.
I seem to have a strong dislike of actually using anything I find. I'm like that with any game where there is stuff to pick up apart from ammo. I guess I could just say I'm very careful with resources.
