SubJeff on 9/5/2013 at 10:45
Quote Posted by heywood
The hairless look is popular among younger people these days and at least part of it can be attributed to internet porn and thus objectification of women.
Really?
Kolya on 9/5/2013 at 13:39
I recently read the same from some sexual therapist, saying that the hairless look first occurred in porn and with the late nineties young men began asking their lovers to shave. Sounds plausible, but I guess it would be hard to get anything except anecdotal evidence.
Vivian on 9/5/2013 at 14:10
Suppressing secondary sexual characteristics seems to be just getting more and more popular. The ideals these days are pretty, skinny, hairless people. I just figured the lack of pubes was a part of it. That and pubes do look kind of stupid.
gunsmoke on 9/5/2013 at 15:16
I guess what I said about being queer could be taken as hate-speak, and if anyone was offended, I apologize. My lady friend and our daughter always razz me about it and it has become an inside joke around here. I keep forgetting that most people don't get all of my little inside jokes and that this forum is so international (vastly different denotations of words).
And SubjEff's comment on feet rings true here, as well. I couldn't wrap my head around how some people's feet just REEK, when I could work as a landscaper 12 hours per day/6 days per week and my feet never smelled. Me doctor told me something about how it is related to bacteria that thrives on some people and is almost non-existent on others.
Queue on 9/5/2013 at 16:01
Oh don't be such a fag.
Jason Moyer on 10/5/2013 at 05:42
That apology makes you sound like a limp-wristed homo, Gunny.
faetal on 13/5/2013 at 12:10
Quote Posted by Vivian
Suppressing secondary sexual characteristics seems to be just getting more and more popular. The ideals these days are pretty, skinny, hairless people. I just figured the lack of pubes was a part of it. That and pubes do look kind of stupid.
I was just thinking about this the other day. Looking at it simply in terms of enhancing sexual dimorphism, women shaving hair makes sense, since they have less than men, hence removing more would create a wider disparity and enhance sexual dimorphism (and men adding hair to hairless areas would be a lot more difficult). But since both sexes are removing more and more hair (scan a few men's underwear adverts and note how many have any visible facial or body hair, then factor in airbrushing), I'm inclined to believe that we're on a cultural gradient to eventually become like Barbie and Ken dolls (except I can't grow hair on my head either, which further deepens my accursed divergence from the accepted norms).
Culture is a funny old thing and the hair thing resembles a (bare) arms race in some respects.
Vivian on 13/5/2013 at 12:37
We seem to be mainly into reducing sexual dimorphism at the moment, though? I mean, there's always exceptions, but the general trend seems to be towards relatively androgenous figures and facial appearances.
faetal on 13/5/2013 at 12:47
Quote Posted by Kolya
I recently read the same from some sexual therapist, saying that the hairless look first occurred in porn and with the late nineties young men began asking their lovers to shave. Sounds plausible, but I guess it would be hard to get anything except anecdotal evidence.
Personal hair removal (women and men) can be traced back as far as Babylonians. The only link I have found between modern hair removal trends and modern hair removal is some swim wear adverts from the early 20th century (I did a bunch of reading as the topic got me thinking about it). This doesn't scream patriarchy so much as hair removal probably just being a strong meme. If you could argue that it can happen independently (i.e. this meme can spread without men pushing it), then I'd say that it's not part of objectification of one sex, it's just a catchy idea. The fact that men remove a lot of unwanted body hair also just seems to show that it's a cultural trend. Prove that it is from men telling women to shave and that it is not the idea catching on, by dint of it being more attractive. Attractiveness is not a list of bullet points compiled by a frat house, it is a sensory-physiological process which occurs within animals. Worth also noting that women watch porn too.
Things like wage disparity are easier to argue because men used to hold all of the senior positions in the majority of businesses and it is pretty obvious how that might affect female career progression and thus wages. Even after sexism in general is being pushed out of the workplace (far slower than is ideal), it will take a lot of progression before balance is reached.
Society
absolutely puts pressure on me to remove my back and shoulder hair, my gf is ok with it - she just
prefers it smooth. I have never noticed her behave differently towards me when I'm due a wax - she loves me. I don't just do it for her (though I do enjoy doing it for her as well), I do it because I can not go to the beach or to a swimming pool or just take my t-shirt off in the park on a hot day without feeling self-conscious and noticing stares and often being loudly ridiculed by men and women alike because the unsightliness of back hair is broadly acknowledged within society. It's not my fault those genes are switched on by default and while I can choose not to wax and 'wear it proud' if I like, I'd be painfully naive if I felt I had some kind of right to be found attractive by society just because it's my natural state. Despite sounding like I have a huge complex about it, I'm quite relaxed with it (hence discussing it freely), but I do acknowledge that the difference between how I look and what society thinks looks good can be addressed with grooming and thus I do it. I don't blame Calvin Klein, society, consumerism or a sexist agenda, it's just dumb luck that me != trend.
I reckon that's probably all I have to say on the topic. I blame procrastination from writing my thesis on even having said as much as I have :/
faetal on 13/5/2013 at 12:49
Quote Posted by Vivian
We seem to be mainly into reducing sexual dimorphism at the moment, though? I mean, there's always exceptions, but the general trend seems to be towards relatively androgenous figures and facial appearances.
That's what I'm saying. The first part of my response was intended as a baseline to accentuate the "but" part which was afterwards.
[EDIT] It's almost as though the trend is towards getting all body hair out of the way and letting physique, facial characteristics and head hair be the totems of sexual dimorphism. Even the mild resurgence in beard popularity with hipsters seems to be more about adding it as an accessory than reverting to a more natural state - "you've got a beard" vs. "you stopped shaving your beard". Perhaps it's about de-cluttering this very specific landscape. Why am I thinking about this and not writing my discussion chapter :/
