What overturning Roe v. Wade could mean for birth control access, maternal care - by Dia
Tocky on 8/5/2023 at 13:47
That was not sarcasm. Why would you think it is? I said that because in all the other comments which were off issue we had finally gotten to the issue.
"Doctors misdiagnose death all too frequently. Some people who survive a diagnosis of clinical death or brain death, report complex perceptions during their departure and recover full brain function after returning. This would suggest that the supposedly clear line is neither clear nor linear. The same can be said about the progression from zygote to person. IMHO"
Are you seriously going to argue that because a mistake is made that you cannot trust doctors? Where are you going to go when you need heart surgery? Mistakes are made then too. What we are doing is trying to define the line better of when a zygote becomes a person. Neither of our "opinions" matter. Provable fact is all that does.
"The choice question is entirely a scientific one." That is not just an assertion. What other thing do we have to judge by? God? you would first have to prove God exists. I can prove science exists. Can you prove God does?
Science does not draw lines which do not exist. It draws lines based on what is provable and therefore does exist.
Thanks for your definition of what morals and ethics are but those have to be based on provability of reality and science does that. No other thing does.
Anyone can find a fact? They can but they must use scientific method to determine it is. Without provable testing methods then it is not a fact.
Now can we get back to the only important part of the discussion? The only important part is when a zygote becomes a person. I assert it is a level of brain activity and you assert it is when it comes from a person and has dividing cells. Prove that assertion. I'll define my assertion better if you want. But lets do this without an undefined morality. The morality which applies is are we killing a person. That is the only place where morality applies. Let's determine what that is. Science can do that. If you want to claim anything else can then you have to prove that thing exists first.
Tocky on 8/5/2023 at 14:18
"Doctors misdiagnose death all too frequently. Some people who survive a diagnosis of clinical death or brain death, report complex perceptions during their departure and recover full brain function after returning. This would suggest that the supposedly clear line is neither clear nor linear. The same can be said about the progression from zygote to person. IMHO"
This part requires further discussion. I'm at work so I have to be brief when I don't need to be. Who is it that has reported complex perceptions after diagnosis of brain death? Also there is no departing or arriving back that is provable. All there is is stopping and starting of the ability to perceive and organize thoughts. The brain has developed that ability and is therefore capable of starting it again in certain circumstances as long as it is not damaged too severely. The line is linear as we accept sequence in time but fuzzy as we have not defined ability to percieve and think at those points in time.
I wish I had more time. We are getting to the actual point now.
