What overturning Roe v. Wade could mean for birth control access, maternal care

Dia on 13/5/2022 at 16:46

My friends, come weep with me and all our sisters in this country. (https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Wellness/experts-warn-health-economic-impacts-women-roe-wade/story?id=84508813)

I'm surprised this subject hasn't been broached yet, honestly. The day news of the leak that the SCOTUS was poised to overturn Roe vs Wade was released, I have to say I was dumbfounded. How could we, as a nation, have come so far in recognizing and establishing women's rights, only to turn around & almost overnight see those rights on the verge of being totally destroyed?? You see, it's not just about banning abortions, it's also about the implications of all our other rights being abolished; rights that the far-right wingnuts don't like and will do their best to abolish next. That should be obvious. The far-right misogynists are taking away women's rights to bodily autonomy and the right to safe reproductive healthcare. Sure, just overturning Roe vs Wade doesn't mean that abortions will be federally banned (but they're already working on that, too, don't kid yourself); the SCOTUS is opening a can of worms enabling each state to pass abortion bans with NO exceptions, like here in Wisconsin. Our POS GOP-dominated state legislature has already issued a statement wherein the 1849 ban on abortions would go back into effect in Wisconsin 'if' Roe vs Wade was overturned by the SCOTUS. 1849. When a woman's highest goal, as dictated by a patriarchal-dominated society, was to become a wife and ~~broodmare~~, erm, mother. The four Republicans running against our Gov. Tony Evers (may God bless him and his progeny) are all anti-abortion, with NO exceptions for victims of rape, incest, or for women whose lives are in jeopardy because of their pregnancies. No. Exceptions. And the misogynists who advocate for an absolute ban on abortions don't see the irony of claiming they're 'Pro-Life' while they're sentencing women to die from their pregnancies. I think we've all heard how certain states have been busy these past few years trying to circumvent Roe vs Wade by banning abortions after so many weeks (commonly before a woman knows she's even pregnant) and it seems as though those far-right Pro-Forced Birthers just aren't satisfied with the total banning of all abortions in their respective states, either.

'NEW ORLEANS (AP) — The sponsor of a bill that would have subjected Louisiana women to murder charges for having abortions abruptly pulled the proposal from debate Thursday night after House members voted 65-26 to totally revamp the legislation, eliminating the criminal penalties.

The controversial bill would have ventured farther against abortion than lawmakers’ efforts in any other state. It would have made women who end their pregnancies subject to criminal homicide prosecutions.'* (https://www.yahoo.com/news/louisiana-debates-murder-charge-women-053041484.html) *The sponsor isn't done yet; he still thinks women should be summarily executed if they have abortions, all politician double-speak aside. Nuthin' like Pro-Life values. omg

'Brittney Poolaw was just about four months pregnant when she lost her baby in the hospital in January 2020.

This October, she was convicted and sentenced to four years in prison for the first-degree manslaughter of her unborn son.' (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59214544)

Shit show or absolute nightmare? I say both. The far-right won't stop with banning abortions, either. There's already been talk by the GOP-dominated states wherein birth control (for women) would be either banned outright or access to birth control would be made so difficult or so expensive that too many underprivileged or low-income women wouldn't be able to gain that access. The good news is that men's Viagra will remain totally available and covered by all health insurance companies, nationwide. *please note that the last sentence is absolutely dripping with sarcasm*

(https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/birth-control-banned-roe-v-wade-overturned-legal-experts-warn-rcna28253)

(https://news.yahoo.com/mississippi-governor-wont-rule-possible-200503601.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall)

What the actual fuck is happening in our 'Land of the Free and Home of the Brave'?? Land of the Free? Yeah, right. My grandmother remembered the Women's Suffragette marches, I marched for the Women's Liberation Movement back in the 60s & 70s and now my daughter and granddaughters are going to have to fight against far-right efforts to send women's rights back to the Stone Age. Oh my very God!! And yeah, I know some of you are thinking 'Well stop bitching and get out and vote'. Kind of hard to do when the GOP-dominated state legislature keeps dropping the names of over 200,000 voters (the majority of which were found to have voted straight Democratic tickets) from the state's voter registry every two years. Been there, done that. Or the GOP in our state legislature gerrymanders on a free and regular basis. *sighs* No, I am by no means done fighting in this War Against Women. Not by a long shot. No apologies for sounding cliche or militantly feminist here, but .....
#WeWillNotGoBack #KeepYourBansOffMYUterus #OURBODIESOURCHOICE

And hold on to your butts, friends, because after the far-right is done taking away all the rights of women in this country, they'll be coming for our LGBTQ friends and minorities next. Mark my words. *sighs again* Looks like it's time to get my fightin' shoes out of the closet ...... again. *smh*

I know it's a very bad thing to wish ill on others, but I'm sure you can guess where my mind is at on the subject of the far-right misogynists in this country.

Rant far from over.

Azaran on 13/5/2022 at 17:17

One thing is a bill. The other is how likely it is to become law. I don't think it will ever happen.
This is just my opinion. If it did, there would be riots all over (there's already been attacks against anti abortion establishments), possibly bordering on civil war, and any country-wide anti-abortion law would immediately be abolished in the name of public order

Pyrian on 13/5/2022 at 19:51

The Louisiana thing won't be passed in that form (although something else will), but the Wisconsin example is already law and will resume effect immediately, as will several others.

demagogue on 13/5/2022 at 20:42

When I was in law school, one gets to join the state bar association for free, and I did that and was on the Bioethics Committee. This was back in the early 2000s, and we would talk about these same laws even back then, especially that Louisiana one. I'm sure they'll have a field day with this SCOTUS decision.

To put it bluntly, it completely upends the Due Process analysis under the 14th Amendment that we've had since 1965 (the Griswold case; states can't ban birth control), but really back to Meyer v. Nebraska 1923, when a state wanted to ban foreign language schools. Cases like that basically drew a line and said there are some matters the federal government has no business regulating because they're either fundamental (bodily or sexual autonomy) or they're just so irrational or steeped in prejudice that there's no rational reason that could justify the law.

The high point was Obergefell in 2015, the case requiring states to allow gay marriage, where Kennedy said there's no formula for the 14th Amendment. The key is dignity, treating adults with the respect to make their own life decisions. And as for locating its scope in the "history of traditions" of the country, he said it's the history in terms of our central values, like liberty and autonomy, not in terms of ancient prejudices.

This case completely rips up that holding, as if to say it's not about dignity, respect, or our values at all. It's a sad low point of the Court, and that's before you even get to the part where it will have terrible social effects.

-------------------

I scripted out a mock dialog with a rightwing nut once. I may still make it, especially now.

So the set up is, the interviewer wants to talk about gun rights with a rightwing nut.
He starts a recording app on his phone to record everything.

Then he asks the guy if it he really believes it is justifiable to threaten somebody on his property without his consent with a gun if they refuse to leave.

Of course he'll insist yes. If he doesn't want them there, too bad. It's his property; his rules.

- Okay, but what if the person enters your house and then inserts himself into your body.

- What do you mean? Like ... inserts himself?

- Yeah, use your imagination. Or don't. He has a finger or other appendage and sticks it up into one of your sphincters, say your anus. This is without your consent. Do you have to tolerate him being there?

- Hell no!!!! That motherfucker better get out of my body or Imma pop a 45 in his face.

- Lethal force is justified in that case?

- Are you stupid? Of course!

- It's not murder?

- It's not murder when it's self defense!

- Okay, okay, but what if he's mentally retarded, so he doesn't actually have the mental capacity to stop himself.

- It don't matter if he does it by choice or not. A motherfucker up my asshole needs to get out!

- Okay, okay, but what if he stitches himself in, so if you remove him, it will rip the stitches and he'll start bleeding out. You don't want to kill the guy, do you?

- Why would he do that!?

- He's crazy. But does it make a difference?

- No that doesn't make a difference! That guy is stuck up in my asshole. Why would that make a difference?

- Okay, but what if he believes that God told him to do it? You're Christian. Don't you respect the Word of God?

- I don't know what God told this guy, but God didn't tell me that. And I don't care if God miracled his appendage up into my ass. He needs to get out!

- Okay, I get your point. Let's talk about abortion now. Like you just said, it's justifiable for a woman to remove a fetus inside her body without her consent, right?

- Well now wait, that's different.

- Different how? The fetus isn't a person?

- Don't twist my words. Abortion is murder!

[The interviewer pushes a button on the recorder app]

[It plays:] It's not murder when it's self defense!

- But a baby is innocent.

[The interviewer pushes a button on the recorder app]

[It plays:] It don't matter if he does it by choice or not. A motherfucker in my body needs to get out!

- But it would kill the baby!

[The interviewer pushes a button on the recorder app]

[It plays:] That doesn't make a difference! That guy is stuck up in my asshole. Why would that make a difference?

- But that crazy guy stuck himself inside of me. Pregnancy is the way God sends humans into this world.

[The interviewer pushes a button on the recorder app.]

[It plays:] I don't know what God told this guy, but God didn't tell me that. And I don't care if God miracled his finger up into my ass. He needs to get out!

-----------------

Well it's something along those lines.
It's more about bringing out the hypocrisy in their logic, or at least that they've accepted every step in the moral argument for abortion in another context, and they need to take that more seriously than they do. They're not seeing the tension between abortion and bodily autonomy, and this brings it out.

I can understand there are good reasons to think the state should take steps to preserve the life of a fetus outside a womb if possible, maybe artificial wombs or something. But saying a person has to tolerate a person or object inside their body without their consent is a line I think most even religious men would also say is a step too far if you actually asked them if they must tolerate another person inside their anus, which is the morally equivalent case.

Dia on 13/5/2022 at 22:32

Quote Posted by demagogue

Once Roe vs Wade was passed, you're right; states absolutely could not go against federal law and completely abolish abortions. But, they could pass severe restrictions on abortions and that's what has already happened. I've only listed those states that have placed unreasonable (imo) restrictions on abortions. Keep in mind, most women don't even know or find out they're pregnant until around 6 weeks.

Georgia, Iowa, South Dakota, West Virginia
In these states, abortion is banned on or around 20 weeks, meaning that is is illegal to undergo the procedure after that time.
Depending on the circumstances there may be certain limited exceptions, but there are also a number of other restrictions.
Parents must be notified unless the minor is exempt under a judicial bypass, insurance and State Medicaid funding limitations apply and all states require a waiting time of between 24-72 hours with the exception of Iowa.

Alabama, Arkansas, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Wisconsin
In these states, abortion is banned on or around 20 weeks, meaning that is is illegal to undergo the procedure after that time.
Not only that, but all of the states listed also required parental consent for the procedure to go ahead unless the minor is exempt under a judicial bypass.
Each state also mandates a waiting period ranging between 18-72 hours with a minimum of two clinic visits required by some.
All states except Alabama place legal restrictions on insurance and State Medicaid funding, prohibiting the financial coverage of abortion.

Texas
Texas is so far the only state to make abortion illegal after six weeks of pregnancy.
Due to a controversial abortion ban, Texas health centres can only provide abortion services within six weeks of the first day of the patient's last period - a time before which some women know they are pregnant.
Insurance and State Medicaid funding restrictions are also in place, parental consent is required with the exception of a judicial bypass, and patients must wait 24 hours and take two trips to the clinic in order to receive the abortion.

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis on Thursday (4/23/22) signed into law a bill that bans nearly all abortions after 15 weeks, the same gestational limit currently being reviewed by the U.S. Supreme Court.
The new law, which passed the state Senate in March, will go into effect July 1.

I think it's safe to assume that those states will be the first to completely ban abortions. Wisconsin will be right there with them, sadly enough.

More information regarding other states' stands on abortion: (https://www.the-sun.com/news/3586925/abortion-law-state-us/)

And while you're correct in stating states cannot ban birth control, once again, the Republicans in states waging total war against women are finding ways around that, same as they did for abortions.

'Some conservative lawmakers wasted no time signaling they were looking into restricting or banning certain types of emergency contraception, such as Plan B and other morning-after pills that can be used within 72 hours of intercourse to prevent pregnancy.

A leading Republican state legislator in Idaho suggested last week that he would be open to holding hearings on banning emergency birth control, and Sen. Marsha Blackburn, R-Tenn., recently denounced Griswold v. Connecticut, the 1965 case that expanded access to contraception to unmarried people.

In Louisiana, legislation would classify abortion as a homicide and define “personhood” as beginning from the moment of fertilization. Contraception methods like Plan B and certain types of intrauterine devices, or IUDs, could be restricted under the bill, said Cathren Cohen, a scholar of law and policy at the UCLA Law Center.' (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/birth-control-banned-roe-v-wade-overturned-legal-experts-warn-rcna28253)

If the court topples Roe, it puts constitutional protections for birth control on shaky ground
But here’s the more important question: Will women still have access to birth control in a post-Roe world? The limits described above will likely expand, and some states will try to ban contraceptive access entirely.

There are two reasons for this. First, constitutional protections for abortion and birth control are linked. In Griswold v. Connecticut, the Supreme Court invalidated a law prohibiting birth control, arguing that the prohibition violated a fundamental “right to privacy.” This right to privacy is the foundation for Roe v. Wade.

And since the far-right 'Christians' (and I use that term loosely here) seem to have become staunch pals & supporters of the far-right misogynist politicians, you can throw 'separation of church and state' (which isn't an actual law, btw) right out the fucking window.

Religious groups classify some forms of birth control as abortion
Further, in recent decisions, the court let religious groups argue that some forms of contraception are “abortifacients.” For instance, in the Hobby Lobby case, the company objected that four FDA-approved contraceptives prevented implantation of a fertilized egg — and that that counted as an abortion. More specifically, the company claimed that the owners’ “religious beliefs forbid them from participating in, providing access to, paying for, training others to engage in, or otherwise supporting abortion-causing drugs and devices.” (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/12/11/if-supreme-court-undermines-roe-v-wade-contraception-could-be-banned-this-explains-how/)

Afaic, any way you look at it, women are screwed. GOP-dominated states will do as they damn well please, federal laws be damned; those sleazy far right sexist pigs will find a way around those laws. They've already done so with their abortion restrictions. I know I sound like a paranoid old woman, but I don't trust or like the way this abortion thing is going and I am devastated to think that we're going back to back-alley abortions. The wrinkled old white misogynist males in government (term limits, anyone?) long for the days when they could do as they please to women and suffer no consequences and I think they've told their stories of their Glory Days to enough younger white misogynist males that we now have a whole new generation of hardcore incels who want to live like their grandads did back in the 50s. I'll be doing my best to encourage women who support Pro-Choice to get out and vote. And protest. I mean, afterall, women make up 54% of the population in this country and of those 54%, polls show that nearly 68% support Pro-Choice. ;);)

rachel on 13/5/2022 at 23:30

You don't sound paranoid at all. Evangelist conservatives want to turn the US into their own little private Gilead, will of the majority be damned... and they do it right under the nose of “moderates” who are too chicken to do anything about it, believing they're protecting the statu quo.

SD on 14/5/2022 at 10:25

I always thought the term "pro-life" was one of the biggest misnomers in politics. By and large these are the same people who consistently oppose measures to prolong and improve life, from implementing genuine universal healthcare to abolishing capital punishment. If they are pro-anything, they are pro-birth. And as soon as that kid is born, all concern for its welfare disappears overnight.

MriyaMachine on 14/5/2022 at 12:16

I've been suggesting to female friends that they consider carrying a knife around, and be ready to defend themselves. I know it's not much…this whole thing is a disaster. But I can't think of anything else to do. I hope that any females out there who are in abusive patriarchal relationships (and there are lots, of course -_-) can find ways out of those relationships. You DO NOT need to be stuck for life with a guy who you can't trust and has no respect for you so that you can have a roof over your head. Turn to family, friends. This nation is plummeting off a cliff. I always knew it would. I would just have to recommend that anyone do what they can at a local, personal level. Tell the females in your life that you've got their back and your help if ever needed. When states fail, all we can do is work from the ground up.

rachel on 14/5/2022 at 12:23

One could start referring to women as women instead of females.

Dia on 14/5/2022 at 14:44

Quote Posted by MriyaMachine

I've been suggesting to female friends that they consider carrying a knife around, and be ready to defend themselves. I know it's not much...this whole thing is a disaster. But I can't think of anything else to do. I hope that any females out there who are in abusive patriarchal relationships (and there are lots, of course -_-) can find ways out of those relationships. You DO NOT need to be stuck for life with a guy who you can't trust and has no respect for you so that you can have a roof over your head. Turn to family, friends. This nation is plummeting off a cliff. I always knew it would. I would just have to recommend that anyone do what they can at a local, personal level. Tell the females in your life that you've got their back and your help if ever needed. When states fail, all we can do is work from the ground up.

Ok, I realize you're new-ish to TTLG, so I'll try to be gentle with you. First of all, on the subject of domestic/sexual abuse, please stop with the mansplaining. Women don't need men to tell them they need to find a way out of an abusive relationship; we already know that and unfortunately it's not always that cut and dried, not always that easy and far too often ends in tragedy for the woman involved. We don't need men to caution us to 'be careful' or 'seek help', ffs. And too often family and friends aren't able to help either, not without putting themselves in jeopardy. Women have been combating domestic/sexual abuse since forever and it's only within the last several decades that domestic/sexual abuse has been recognized as a real thing. 50 years ago a wife didn't stand a cold chance in hell of reporting domestic abuse or marital rape; men were automatically granted 'conjugal rights' in marriage and if those rights included beating the hell out of your wife because she didn't want you raping her again, then have at it. 15 years ago I was warned by a cop that a restraining order 'is not a bullet-proof vest' and when I mused that ok, maybe I'd better buy a gun for self-defense, he laughed and said 'Aw hell no! A gal is likely to just shoot herself in the foot with one of the dang things'. Why do you think women travel in groups or pairs for a night out, or accompany each other to the restroom or parking lot or keep in touch with their besties by texting when they're out shopping or running errands? Seeking legal recourse is not a given that you'll have justice either, even if you can afford it. Even today women are victim blamed or accused of making false accusations; false accusations which only make up 2% to 7% of all domestic violence/rape charges, according the the Ntl. Sexual Violence Resource Center. And THAT sexist attitude is what we're still fighting against today and it's still rampant in our government(s) (both state and federal). Women have been fighting this battle for what seems like forever and the tragic and infuriating thing is that with the news that the SCOTUS is going to overturn Roe vs Wade, it looks like we've been shoved back to square one. So no, dear, even though you mean well, you really must stop trying to mansplain; we women already know what we're up against. Thanks for your support, though.

You are right about one thing and that is that we're failing at the state level. I've joined several women's organizations here in S.E. Wisconsin to work with other women to combat the rampant sexism (and blatant corruption) of our state legislature and we all understand the first step in this battle is to vote those misogynistic GOP assholes the hell out of office. Unfortunately, Republicans in our state have slyly tied women's rights to their bullshit claim that the Dems want to take away their guns, a trigger cunningly devised & aimed at (no pun intended) the unfortunate number of 'Good Old Boys' we have in this state. What else would you expect from a bunch of sexist men who're getting serious kickbacks from the NRA? It's an uphill battle, but we've already succeeded in ousting that POS Scot ('Scooter') Walker from the governor's seat, so there's hope yet. It's just so damned dismaying and depressing that women are having to gear up, yet again, to fight for rights that should be a given. *smh*