icemann on 19/5/2017 at 10:38

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Or Day Z.

Sulphur on 19/5/2017 at 17:49

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I think the problem is that we're treating it as a genre descriptor. The thing is, most genres describe the tonality of the experience, whereas the term 'immersive sim' is simultaneously specific and vague, enough so that it could encompass entire genres within it.

It's a design philosophy at the end of the day. As with most design philosophies, there aren't absolute rules or rigorous sets of parameters to meet. Or, perhaps more accurately, they may have absolute rules and rigorous parameters, but it might not be physically possible to meet all of them.* In the end, it's a set of guidelines that help delineate a certain kind of player experience. It could be used to create a stealth game, or a cyberpunk action game, or even a puzzler if required. Whether the end result is actually immersive will always be up for debate. MGS 5 definitely follows immersive sim design, for example, but the random punter here might say that it's not an FPP game, so it can't count.

Well, they're wrong.

Anyway, what we've seen with modern game design is that they've taken portions of the philosophy - your Ubisoft Far Cries are a good example of limited emergence arising from systems - and utilised them to create experiences somewhat more layered than a vanilla shooter (how successful they've been is up in the air though; I hate the generic fetch-questiness or variable tweaking that lets them get away with dotting maps with hundreds of 'side-missions'). That's also the reason why it's a bit sticky to tell whether Stalker: SoC or GTA V belong to the imsim category. The truth is many of these games have borrowed parts of the ideology for their own needs over the years, which is exactly what you do when you decide the blueprints for your own design.


*See Spector's design notes for Deus Ex and compare with the end product.

Sulphur on 19/5/2017 at 18:57

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Genre is used to talk about a limited class of experience within fiction. This term we're batting about doesn't really funnel down to or operate like that.

Pyrian on 19/5/2017 at 20:44

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Any game in which 451 appears as a conspicuous number - usually but not necessarily a keycode - early on? Interesting.

Jason Moyer on 19/5/2017 at 21:08

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Ultima Underworld, System Shock, Thief, System Shock 2, Thief 2, Deus Ex, Arx Fatalis, Deus Ex Invisible War, Thief Deadly Shadows, Arx Fatalis, Dishonored, Dishonored 2, Prey. All of these games share similar characteristics in that they're a.) first person b.) are "immersive" in the sense that they have interacting simulated systems that work together to form a consistent, "believable" world and c.) allow the player to use various tools to interact with that environment in ways that the designers didn't necessarily intend or predict.

I dunno, I feel like this is a genre that isn't that hard to figure out. Assetto Corsa or Euro Truck Sim may be simulations that are immersive, but that doesn't make them immersive sims because that's not what that genre identifier means. Stuff like the Elder Scrolls or ArmA or Penumbra include some of the genre's defining characteristics without committing to them entirely. Deus Ex HR and MD share some of the genre's characteristics but were clearly designed with specific ways of completing the games objectives in mind. Thief 4 features traps that a reasonably fit adult of Garrett's size/build could simply avoid by jumping over them, but he can't because it's not an immersive sim.