catbarf on 12/12/2009 at 00:07
As opposed to Dead Space or other similar games, was more than the atmosphere. I never really thought about it before, but it suddenly dawned on me- monster patrols.
Most games use scripted enemies that appear when you trigger an objective or step across a point. SS2 has these, but the levels are always populated with monsters going about patrol routes.
There are no safe areas, there are no cleared-out zones, and there is no warning that you are about to bump into an enemy. No sound of a grate breaking or a monster shrieking, just walking around a corner and randomly bumping into a very angry Hybrid.
The developers aren't trying to be 'fair' by letting you know when you're going to be attacked or preventing monsters from spawning when you're backtracking. You're always on edge, because it's utterly random.
So this is the point of it, really. A developer can make a game scripted and planned, crafting it for the perfect experience, but once you learn the 'rules' then the fear is gone. You know the system, you know how it operates, and you can predict when you're going to fight. But with random enemy generation and patrols, a fight could come at any time because it's out of the hands of the level designer.
And that, more than the fantastic atmosphere, spooky sound, or grotesque enemies, is what makes System Shock 2 actually frightening to play and re-play.
Are there other horror games that use this concept?
Zygoptera on 12/12/2009 at 23:15
Bioshock.
Well, it would have if the combat hadn't been so trivial.
rachel on 12/12/2009 at 23:46
In my opinion, real-time log/inventory management had more to do with it than AI ecologies (not saying it didn't play a role though). The fact that you had to scout for hiding spots in order to have a break and listen to your logs or sort your stuff did a lot to increase the tension, as opposed to the usual "out-of-world" approach most games have.
catbarf on 13/12/2009 at 00:09
Quote Posted by Zygoptera
Bioshock.
Well, it would have if the combat hadn't been so trivial.
Yes and yes.
Quote Posted by raph
In my opinion, real-time log/inventory management had more to do with it than AI ecologies (not saying it didn't play a role though). The fact that you had to scout for hiding spots in order to have a break and listen to your logs or sort your stuff did a lot to increase the tension, as opposed to the usual "out-of-world" approach most games have.
True, but I had no problem just stopping and listening to logs in Dead Space, for example, because I knew I wouldn't be attacked. I think it's the combination that's necessary for the tension.
rachel on 13/12/2009 at 00:44
Can't say about that one, haven't played Dead Space :)
terrannova on 13/12/2009 at 01:23
Dead Space is probably the closest game to System Shock 2 in terms of atmosphere and the whole scary feel to it.
Well except for Body of the Many though, what a horrible level.
JediKorenchkin on 13/12/2009 at 01:35
Quote Posted by terrannova
Dead Space is probably the closest game to System Shock 2 in terms of atmosphere and the whole scary feel to it.
I totally disagree. Dead Space is a pretty cool game, don't get me wrong, but it relies, as most games these days do, on scripted events. As catbarf mentioned in the opening post, Dead Space has no spawning / random patrols. You wipe out an area and you can sit around and shit for all eternity. There's no feeling of having to keep moving.
Dead Space also relies a bit on the "Doom" style of horror, which is to say, "monsters randomly pop out because they just happened to be hiding there". Even Bioshock has that a BIT, but is closer to System Shock 2 - the feeling that this is all happening "real time". You can walk into a room in Shock 2 and see a hybrid beating a corpse, or searching something out. Even Bioshock has that with the little sisters and Big Daddies wandering around - though that's mostly (all?) scripted.
Al_B on 13/12/2009 at 01:54
I'm pretty conflicted about dead space as a game. It's got great atmosphere and I enjoyed completing it. However, I can't say with all honesty that I enjoyed the actual game. It may be that I'm a complete wimp with this style of game but the tension level was so high throughout that it turned most of it into a series of mad panic encounters.
Neither it or Bioshock are games that I've felt the need to replay. They're both good games - but the compulsion to play them again just hasn't been there.
furiousgeorge on 13/12/2009 at 10:49
Quote Posted by Al_B
I'm pretty conflicted about dead space as a game. It's got great atmosphere and I enjoyed completing it. However, I can't say with all honesty that I enjoyed the actual game. It may be that I'm a complete wimp with this style of game but the tension level was so high throughout that it turned most of it into a series of mad panic encounters.
Neither it or Bioshock are games that I've felt the need to replay. They're both good games - but the compulsion to play them again just hasn't been there.
Ditto, except I never finished it. I probably should. I just ended up getting tired of it. It seemed repetitive and not surprising. Very scripted and monster-closet-y.
The word "scary" definitely felt more at home in Dead Space than "tension" did. Some of the atmosphere was definitely well done though. I want to really like Dead Space. It just won't let me. :(
rachel on 13/12/2009 at 12:44
That's the crux of it actually, as catbarf said in the OP. I wouldn't call Shock scary, rather, it's really, really tense, atmospheric gameplay. It makes you fear the worst even when you're in a safe area, and manages to build that atmosphere without relying on cheap one-off scares. Makes you feel like a wreck after prolonged sessions ;)
Doom, and apparently Dead Space too, have "closet monsters" and if you survive them, after that the level is clean. With Shock you're never safe. You come back to Engineering after a few hours, it'll be crawling.
