Renzatic on 26/1/2014 at 15:25
Quote Posted by FatSpy
Honestly the whole "blatant dishonor ripoff" is going to kill any sense of atmosphere for me. I mean it was decent until the begger queen which reminded me of character I ran into in dishonored who was a crazy lady who was a former queen. It's just an uneasy feeling that's like "They're just jumping on the bandwagon" which would ruin it for me.
Beyond both being old blind ladies, the Beggar Queen and Granny Rags are almost entirely different characters.
As for the Dishonored-ness of it all, I don't think they both have THAT much in common thematically. To me, nuThief looks more like what I'd expect Thief to look like with a more Victorian bent. Dishonored is more painterly, bright, and has a much, much heavier emphasis on steampunk. Yeah, they both have their superficial similarities, but I'd say that's more because they're working from a similar sources and inspirations than it is one outright copying the other.
Renault on 26/1/2014 at 16:14
Thing is though, you wouldn't say any of the original Thief games feel like Dishonored, so the EM devs obviously steered the game in that direction. Probably just saw how successful the game was and figured why not.
There's just one too many similarities in the games to not think the former didn't influence the latter. The plague, exiled protagonist, crazy old lady, eccentric scientist type, brothel level, blink/swoop, dark vision/focus, I mean you can go on for a while with this stuff and the game isn't even out yet.
Renzatic on 26/1/2014 at 16:46
Thing is, Thief has been in development far, far longer than Dishonored was. Do you really think they scrapped whatever old story and missions they had to ape Dishonored the moment it came out back in 2012? They're a successful studio who have already proven themselves capable with DX:HR. They don't have to ride on anyone's coat tails.
The basic setting in Dishonored and Thief isn't particularly novel. It's all inspired by London during the plague mixed in with some political strife. I could very easily see two separate studios coming up with something in that vein independently of each other, especially considering their common sources of inspiration. Beyond that though, the two don't have all that much in common. Dishonored, like you said, doesn't really look or feel like old Thief. The style is completely different, and it's very much obviously its own world. It's got its own thing going. New Thief, has a lot more in common with old Thief in its art and presentation. It feels like an extension of Thief 2 and 3, with some liberties taken by EM to add their own flavor to the mix.
They've both got a similar base, but the story itself, and the way it plays out look entirely different.
Also, blink and swoop don't have much to do with each other (seriously, one's a teleport spell that can shoot you 20 meters away when upgraded, and the other's a quick dash that moves you, like, 5 feet away at most), and you could say the way that dark vision/focus is used in Thief is taken more from DX:HR.
(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0O6NCAvzpK0) Here's a example of what I mean when I say nuThief looks like an extension of old Thief artwise. That link is pretty spoiler heavy, by the way.
june gloom on 26/1/2014 at 16:57
Quote Posted by FatSpy
Honestly the whole "blatant dishonor ripoff" is going to kill any sense of atmosphere for me. I mean it was decent until the begger queen which reminded me of character I ran into in dishonored who was a crazy lady who was a former queen. It's just an uneasy feeling that's like "They're just jumping on the bandwagon" which would ruin it for me.
It amazes me how little attention people pay to the games they play. She wasn't a former queen.
Renault on 26/1/2014 at 17:34
@Renz - you can't say these games (New Thief and Dishonored) don't have a lot of similarities, both in content and look and feel. I'm not saying they're carbon copies. Remember that Thief has been through development hell, and for a while it was a 3rd person Assassin's Creed type game. Dishonored was announced in mid 2011, and screenshots starting coming out then. Plenty of time for EM to look and say, hey, this looks good, let's aim for something in this area.
We haven't played the game yet, but just read through some of the previews I linked to in one of the other threads here. People who have played the game are saying it feels like Dishonored. Complete ripoff, no, but similar. You're saying it's a common theme - old world London-ish, plagues, and revolution. But there's really not much like that in the original Thief games if you think about it.
Renzatic on 26/1/2014 at 19:10
Quote Posted by Brethren
@Renz - you can't say these games (New Thief and Dishonored) don't have a lot of similarities, both in content and look and feel. I'm not saying they're carbon copies. Remember that Thief has been through development hell, and for a while it was a 3rd person Assassin's Creed type game. Dishonored was announced in mid 2011, and screenshots starting coming out then. Plenty of time for EM to look and say, hey, this looks good, let's aim for something in this area.
If you're talking about those over the shoulder screenshots of a monitor from way back when, they were really kinda vague, and hard to tell exactly what the game was about. They did look 3rd person, but like DX, they could've been mixing and matching perspectives.
As for them seeing Dishonored, and building off from that, well...anything's possible, and they very well could've done that. Though I think it's more likely they both hit on similar themes. We saw it happen once before with Borderlands and Rage. Something like that could've very easily happened here.
Plus, when I first started hearing about Dishonored, it didn't strike me as being very Thiefish. If anything, I thought it was gonna be more of a French styled Deus Ex with magic instead of tools. It looked interesting, sure, but there wasn't anything about it that screamed "Next AAA Blockbuster" based on those first screenshots alone. It was an unproven title in a new series that hadn't had any previous successes. Nothing about it would've stopped EM in their tracks, and make them want to ditch everything they'd done up to that point.
It wasn't until late 2012 that the game came out and proved itself a hit, and by that point, it would've been too late to change anything without adding another year or two to their development time.
Quote:
We haven't played the game yet, but just read through some of the previews I linked to in one of the other threads here. People who have played the game are saying it feels like Dishonored. Complete ripoff, no, but similar. You're saying it's a common theme - old world London-ish, plagues, and revolution. But there's really not much like that in the original Thief games if you think about it.
You mean besides the setting itself practically screaming for a good old fashioned plague? Off the top of my head, I can think of at least a couple good FMs that dealt with that very same subject. Even good old fashioned iron gripped despotism has had its moment in the FM scene. Though it's usually been instigated by the Hammerites, rather than the city baron.
FatSpy on 26/1/2014 at 20:21
Quote Posted by Renzatic
Beyond both being old blind ladies, the Beggar Queen and Granny Rags are almost entirely different characters.
As for the Dishonored-ness of it all, I don't think they both have THAT much in common thematically. To me, nuThief looks more like what I'd expect Thief to look like with a more Victorian bent. Dishonored is more painterly, bright, and has a much, much heavier emphasis on steampunk. Yeah, they both have their superficial similarities, but I'd say that's more because they're working from a similar sources and inspirations than it is one outright copying the other.
I honestly don't know much about dishonored because I played for a few hours and quit because I got bored of just blinking all the way to the end. I might try again without warping but the fact that they give it right at the start shows that it's intended to be a core mechanic.
However, that crazy old lady with magic powers thing sort of where I was like "Seriously...?" and pretty much accepted it as a potential dishonored clone. Like they're probably not identical but its just such a rarely used character choice to go with that's out of place in modern trends that I just don't buy it.
Renault on 26/1/2014 at 20:22
Quote Posted by Renzatic
If you're talking about those over the shoulder screenshots of a monitor from way back when, they were really kinda vague, and hard to tell exactly what the game was about. They did look 3rd person, but like DX, they could've been mixing and matching perspectives.
Here, check this article out:
(
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/394556/thief-4-team-experimented-with-assassins-creed-style-third-person-elements/)
Kind of makes it sound like the entire project was a bit chaotic until they brought Stephane Roy on board around Spring of 2012. This was only 6 months before Dishonored came out, so there was likely a lot of screenshots and video available of the game by that time.
Again, no one's saying carbon copy, but "heavily inspired by" doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility.
Fearless Benny on 26/1/2014 at 20:48
It looks good as a casual mainstream game, but not as a thief game. Most people here at the forums are annoyed because it is called Thief, which hurts the original series. I'm pretty sure if it wasn't called Thief and the main character wasn't called Garrett people here would think it's a just another casual game, inspired by the thief series. I don't think it will be a horrible game, as some people say.
Renzatic on 26/1/2014 at 20:53
Quote Posted by FatSpy
I honestly don't know much about dishonored because I played for a few hours and quit because I got bored of just blinking all the way to the end. I might try again without warping but the fact that they give it right at the start shows that it's intended to be a core mechanic.
Yeah, that's one of the things I didn't like about Dishonored. I thought it was a pretty solid game overall, but having all those powers took away a lot of the tension you got standard with Thief
...but then I played the expansions. The missions there are so, so much better designed than the ones in the main game. Ghosting through them is not an easy thing to do.
Quote:
However, that crazy old lady with magic powers thing sort of where I was like "Seriously...?" and pretty much accepted it as a potential dishonored clone. Like they're probably not identical but its just such a rarely used character choice to go with that's out of place in modern trends that I just don't buy it.
They're similar on the surface, but are
completely different in personality and presentation.
Granny Rags? She's a crazy old bat living in a rundown apartment on the edge of town, who only barely acknowledges who you are and what you're doing. She's kinda there to serve as an example of the dark side of the outsiders influence, and to be...well...kinda flat out creepy.
The Beggar Queen? From that one video we all saw, she looked completely sane, and more than a little competent. She seems to be playing the role of an information broker. Someone who knows at least a bit about everything that's going on in the city, and might be one of the big movers and shakers behind the scenes.
To me, they're entirely different characters.
