what is understanding something anyway.

Gorgonseye on 27/10/2006 at 16:11

Well, I just follow the text books, I'm sure that the minerals and things were an added bonus but, they claimed it was for the will of god.....that as christians, the people {Regarding the nation they conquered} must then send all their valuable resources to the royal treasurey etc etc.

Para?noid on 27/10/2006 at 17:20

Oh, I stumbled across this quote earlier and I thought I'd share, it basically rings so true I just shit my pants:

Quote Posted by Calvin Coolidge

Nothing in the world can take the place of Persistence.

Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.

Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb.

Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.

Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.

Vigil on 27/10/2006 at 17:25

Quote:

There's a difference between a reason and a justification.

Agent Monkeysee on 27/10/2006 at 17:41

Quote Posted by Gorgonseye

That's simply not true. The political will was driven by economics. It always is. The Church siezed the oppurtunity and I have no doubt that for *them* it was all about proselytization but that's just not how governments work and it's certainly not how the Imperial monarchies of the time worked. There was a massive amount of untapped wealth and resources to be had and an enormous impetus to exploit it for war coffers and political/economic maneouvering back home. Europe was in hyper-competitive mode at that point due to the political, cultural, and technological advancements coming about at the time and every state worth its salt realized they had the potential to wield a massive amount of power over the world around them.

OF COURSE it was about economics. People don't sail over half the world into unknown territory to establish massive trade routes and colonization projects because of some romantic ideas about The Dude in the Sky. And governments certainly don't pay for such massive expeditions for those reasons. The religous aspect was very real but it was an oppurtunistic piggy-back on projects being undertaken for much more pragmatic reasons.

Tocky on 27/10/2006 at 19:07

When Pizzaro conquered the Incas he was careful to obey the letter of the law sending a friar forth proferring a bible. At Atahualpas confusion and bemused dismissal the friar told Pizzaro "Throw yourselves on them forthwith. I give you all absolution."

Yeah. They had thier chance. The heathens.

On the other hand, 200 spaniards defeated 6000 Inca warriors. They had balls.

Agent Monkeysee on 27/10/2006 at 19:32

Quote Posted by Tocky

On the other hand, 200 spaniards defeated 6000 Inca warriors. They had balls.

Actually they had guns and horses. It was the Imperial precursor to the German mobilized armor vs. Polish horse calvary.

Tocky on 27/10/2006 at 20:14

Actually they did it with swords and in the tight quarters of his mountain fortress, Cajamarca, where horses were of limited value. Once they took Atahualpa the 80,000 man army surrounding the city yeilded for his safety. The cannon they carried were never used. Mostly they won because Atahualpa never expected them to have such balls and had his honor guard go unarmed. It could have gone very wrong for them. Particularly had they overestimated the value placed on thier hostage.

Jeshibu on 27/10/2006 at 21:47

Didn't the diseases the Spaniards carried have something to do with it as well? Or did those just claim a massive amount of lives after the military victory?

Tocky on 28/10/2006 at 00:50

After and less completely than the Carribean islands. There is still a good deal of native blood in South America but it is nearly gone in Mexico. There was some cross breeding as well.

jimjacks teacher may have a prejudice against religion, which, although somewhat understandable, has no place in the classroom. However, if he did say "fronted", as in visage, then yes, governments have hidden behind it. In any event jimjacks rebel freethinking must be crushed.

jimjack on 28/10/2006 at 02:37

I think I've got my next history paper written here. But just from what I've been learning up on presents a load of factors.The conquistadors intent was to spread christianity, the Aztec were at the time attempting to spread the religion of their gods mainly Huitzilect (sp) that was actually the start of the fall of their empire as they were always fighting each other.

The Aztec were picking off their own and ripping the hearts out of other potential allies. If they hadn't they would have likely defeated the Spanish..Ultimately it was the war of christians against the aztec priesthood that ultimately ended the Aztec empire. Moctezuma depended on omens and signs from his seers on how to fight the Spaniards. The Spaniards were armed, had horses and a cannon even though they were hugely outnumbered The Spaniards were initially thought to be the returning God Quetzcotal and that thought gave the Spaniards an advantage in time to enlist and fortify allies including Indians..it also started a free for all in gold and silver. All the golds and metal of the empire were taken and melted odwn by order of Pizarro and shipped off to the king as well as generously paying their soldiers. It was their greed for gold that kept them using the front of converting pagans to christianity. And it didn't help that the Spaniards brought small pox along with them. Pretty fascinating stuff even so. I suck at presenting it all in a readable passage. Yes I will fix it up better if its to be used.

Lol @tocky I will not bend under oppression or something like that...in regard to the cannon it was actually used to intimidate the messengers. Just read that in my fifty dollar text.