bikerdude on 15/4/2007 at 09:17
coolies
biker
Muzman on 15/4/2007 at 10:21
Quote Posted by Vanir
Does light reflecting off Garret's sword look more "dull" than it used to? I seem to remember a much brighter shine when I played with my old Geforce 4. Anyone else notice this?
I think I remember a thread on this subject long ago, complete with comparison screen shots, but my search came up empty.
Funnily enough I had the opposite feeling when I "upgraded" from an agp Radeon to a new motherboard with Nvidia chip onboard. Everything in Thief 2 seemed brighter, the contrast better.
I'm still not convinced its not all in my head, but whatever it is that does this I suspect screenshots aren't going to help 'cause its probably in the video signal.
smithpd on 15/4/2007 at 15:40
Quote Posted by Lady Rowena
smithpd
Ehhhm, I'm just curious....may I ask why a 7950 GT will work better than a 6800 GT?
Hi Lady Rowena.:)
It is complicated story. It is part of a strategy for maintaining Thief capability long-term, which I have been thinking about for a while.
First, I am led to believe through reviews and benchmarks that the 7950 GT will be about twice as fast as the 6800 GT. We will see, and I will report results when I have them. If true, that would allow me to play a few modern games on my current computer. It would delay the time when I feel the urge to upgrade the entire computer by at least a year, maybe much longer, saving money in the long run.
Another aspect is, I have noticed that they stop selling old parts after a while. Already, 8800 variants (which won't play Thief) are dominating the market, and AGP parts are hard to find. You can't buy the 4200 anymore except on Ebay. The 7950 GT I linked to is one of only two 79xx series AGP parts currently available. Soon they will stop selling the 7950 GT AGP because people wanting performance or new computers will all be using PCI Express. Next down is the 7600 GT, which is lower on the performance scale than the 6800 GT.
Assuming the 7950 GT works, I can keep the 6800 GT as a spare. That means that I can keep a separate computer for playing Thief and be assured it will work for a while. I also have a spare for the entire Thief AGP computer, too.:) That means I do not have to worry about the motherboard and other components of the Thief computer.
If and when I eventually do upgrade my computer, the decision now can be based only on my desire to play modern games. It will be PCI Express and have all the modern gear such as 8800 or above and a widescreen monitor. I will be not be constrained by the need for Thief compatibility. I can keep my Thief computer separate and use a KVM box to play Thief.
The alternative to this approach is to use ATI for future Thief compatibility as long as that holds true. I have decided not to do that for the following reasons. Like Bikerdude, I would rather have good fog than good sky. Also, I have established in a separate thread that ATI cards for desktop computers all cause the aspect ratio to be stretched when playing old games on a widescreen monitor, unless, perhaps, the monitor is a Dell. I could not stand that fat-person appearance. So, by excluding Thief and ATI from my next upgrade, I will have less difficult decisions in the future. If ATI fixes its problems, so much the better.
Probably more than you wanted to know. :)
Twist on 15/4/2007 at 16:32
Quote Posted by smithpd
Like Bikerdude, I would rather have good fog than good sky.
I
really don't mean to reduce this to an ATI vs. Nvidia, but for anyone searching the forums for advice on video cards for Thief, you should note the following:
1) The difference in quality between the Nvidia's "good fog" and ATI's "bad fog" is subtle in most cases and it is often hardly identifiable at all, while the difference between Nvidia's "bad skies" and ATI's "good skies" is distinct and dramatic in virtually all cases.
2) You experience skies way more often than you experience fog, in both OMs and FMs alike.
There may be plenty of other reasons to choose Nvidia for your next video card, including the aspect ratio problems on widescreens if that's a concern for you.
But the "fog over skies" argument rings hollow.
smithpd on 15/4/2007 at 17:11
Quote Posted by Twist
I
really don't mean to reduce this to an ATI vs. Nvidia, but for anyone searching the forums for advice on video cards for Thief, you should note the following:
[etc., etc.]
But the "fog over skies" argument rings hollow.
It's not hollow to me. You may not "mean" to, but you
are reducing it to an ATI vs Nvidia argument. I understand the benefits of ATI. Expecting good things, I bought an ATI X1650XT a while back, but after a week I returned it. Fog was a significant reason, but there were others. I posted all the reasons along with screen shots in these threads.
(
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111407&highlight=x1650)
(
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?p=610757#post610757)
Please take up arguments there. That is the end of story for me. That is why this thread is titled "last reliable Nvidia" card. Sorry I brought it up again.:(
Twist on 15/4/2007 at 17:36
Here at my feet I have a system with an Nvidia card and a system with an ATI card. I like both cards and I've used Nvidia for years.
But when I play Thief, I play with the ATI card because I can have both nice skies and good fog, something I haven't seen anyone achieve with a modern Nvidia card.
And I'm not the only one: I know there are others on this forum that specifically switched to an ATI card just for Thief and have been happy. I'm sorry that you personally had a bad experience but I don't think that is a fair representative of the issue.
I'm not arguing with you and you don't need to get enraged over this matter. My concern is more for people using the search function to find advice on what video card to use for Thief.
The "fog over skies" rationale is personal for you, not something people should see as a foregone conclusion.
There is plenty of anecdotal evidence to suggest that choosing ATI for just Thief can be a fine choice, and that is largely because you can obtain good skies and good fog.
smithpd on 15/4/2007 at 17:55
You force me to repeat this. I know there are examples of good fog with ATI, but I have seen quite a few bad examples, too. Your statement that you get good fog with ATI is not always true. It depends on the author's implementation.
Below is a comparison of an underground passage in Swamped.
[CENTER]
Inline Image:
http://home.comcast.net/~smithpd1/thief/fog_ATI.jpgATI Fog
Inline Image:
http://home.comcast.net/~smithpd1/thief/fog_Nvidia.jpgNvidia Fog[/CENTER]
I have seem similar results posted from other missions. The bottom line is that ATI fog, even when it is enabled, looks terrible to me.
See my posts linked above for other reasons. It is a personal choice. I choose Nvidia. And I am not "enraged." Just tired of the argument, which is moot for me.
Twist on 15/4/2007 at 18:11
Quote:
You force me to repeat this.
I
force you? :erm: Chill, man. :p
Yes I saw your links and yes I saw your pictures. I've seen dozens of comparison shots and I've made my own. :cheeky:
Be wary of taking a single experience with a single set of variables and then extracting & creating a universal rule to impose on all other experiences.
You're missing my point, but I don't really care to engage in a debate based on apparent miscommunication. :erg:
I sincerely wish you the best in finding the video card that best fits your personal needs and expectations. :)
smithpd on 15/4/2007 at 18:24
Quote Posted by Twist
I
force you? :erm: Chill, man. :p
Bad choice of words. Sorry. I meant that I felt obligated to counter your implication that fog was no problem with ATI. It is a problem, and is just one of many factors I considered.
Quote:
Be wary of taking a single experience with a single set of variables and then extracting & creating a universal rule to impose on all other experiences.
I did not make a universal rule. I made a decision for myself based on a lot of factors. I thought I made that clear.
Quote:
You're missing my point, but I don't really care to engage in a debate based on apparent miscommunication. :erg:
I think I understood your point complely. It is that you did not want others to be misled by my statements because there are contrary views, and some people chose ATI and like ATI better than Nvidia. I know that full well. I said so in the first post of the thread.
Quote:
I sincerely wish you the best in finding the video card that best fits your personal needs and expectations. :)
Thanks.:)
bikerdude on 15/4/2007 at 18:55
Hey Smithpd
Well on both the nextGen nvidia/Ati front. I will be getting a 8800 again, this will keep me going till the new HD2900XT get's released in June in the UK.
The 7950GT your getting is a very good card, I tested a X1950XTX yesterday and yes while the sky was pretty again, it wasnt much faster than my V-modded/overclocked 7900GT - your 7950GT will oc with no modification to the same speeds.
Its gona be a year or two before we start seeing DX10 titles so your card will be good for that time frame.
I have a thread in (
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112469) 'Technical & Troubleshooting Arena' and will be updating it as I go.
biker
