What is the last reliable Nvidia card for all versions of Thief?

smithpd on 6/4/2007 at 06:24

I have participated in and read a lot of threads that deal with this subject indirectly, but I cannot distill from them the exact circumstances under which Nvidia cards cease to work with various thief versions. Turning it around, I would like to know what is the latest Nvidia card that works reliably for all three games: T1/Gold, T2, and T3 using Windows XP or 2000. And, of course, what driver version you use? Finally, do you need to use any special executables, such as to avoid the safe texture manager problem, or can you use the executable right out of the box, modifying user.cfg? I think the answer may be that the 7900 works, the 7950 often does not, and the 8800 never works properly. But I am not sure.

I understand that some people prefer ATI. Let's not get started with that discussion.

Please also let's not get into a discussion of Vista. There is another thread for that. I think I will probably never use Vista.

Current Status of Investigation

[EDIT: rewrote this summary, removing details about my custom drivers and adding link to some Russian drivers that solve all the problems with the 7950 GT.]

So you don't have to wade through the entire thread, here is a summary of the current status of this investigation. If your experience is different from what I describe here, please post a reply and I will update this summary.

In general, modern Nvidia cards will all play T2 and T3 but in some cases they will not play T1 or Gold. When that happens, you get a BSOD once the T1 game rendering starts.

Bikerdude has reported elsewhere that the 8800 series works well with T1 and T3 but has a problem with poor quality 8-bit rendering in T2. Sneak has reported similar results here. Biker has a thread on the T2 issues in a (http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113501) separate thread. For the time being, the 8800 series has not received a ringing endorsement, but it works, sort of.

Bikerdude also reports that the ATI HD 2000 series has the same problems as the Nvidia 8800 series. It seems that for now Direct X 10 cards are not good for T2. Some who have bought DX10 cards are resurrecting old computers or building them from parts. So for the time being, it looks like Nvidia 7000 series is the basic end of the line for Nvidia and Thief.

The 7000 series video card will play all versions Thief. T2 and T3 are no problem other than the usual bad sky. T1 will play only if you can find a driver that is compatible with your card and does not crash when playing T1. That is not so easy. Finding the perfect driver is the main point of this discussion.

The 7950 GT card is the last Nvidia card that will play all three versions of Thief with decent rendering under Windows XP and 2000, so far as I know. The 7950 GT is the most recent of the 7000 series, and it has some unique compatibility problems.

Based on recommendations in this thread, I bought a 7950 GT. Then, a few months later I bought a second one for a spare, because it really is the last of the Mohicans. For a long time after my first purchase, I could not find a driver that would both recognize my 7950 GT card and play T1. The reason for this is that the 7950 GT was first offered with 93.71 drivers, which will not play T1. Older 8000 series Nvidia drivers, which do play T1 out of the box, do not recognize the 7950 GT and some other later models.

The solution to this dilemma is to find a modified 8000 series driver that has an updated INF file that recognizes the newer cards. Since, at first, I could not find such a driver, I modified one myself, and it worked. Details are given in (http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1589874#post1589874) this post. This method, however, is more trouble than it is worth.

This week I found a better solution. Trying to run SLI with my two cards, I found that the drivers I had cobbled together did not recognize the SLI configuration. So I went on a search for something else. Using Google, I searched for "84.56 7950GT SLI", and by a miracle I found some improved drivers at (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1744187&postcount=302) this link. These drivers do everything I want. They play T1, recognize the 7950 GT, run in SLI mode, and have the old style control panel. Details are given in this (http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1620821#post1620821) this post. So, all is well now. :)

This driver issue was a pain to deal with, but now that the situation is settled, I am glad I bought the card and went to the trouble.

bikerdude on 6/4/2007 at 18:29

In 8 years Ive had the following cards, which thief played on perfectly as far as I can remember.

Geforce ddr, Geforce2, Geforce3 ti, Geforce4 ti4200, 9700pro, 6800AGP, 6800GT, X1800XT, 7800GT and 7900GT.

I skipped the 5x.xx(FX) series of nVidia cards as they were crap. I have tested the 8800GTS and like a lot of people, Ive had various problems... I would avoid the 8x.xx card - it sounds far to reminiscent of the nVidia 5800 series debacle... With regard the safe texture issue, Ive been playing thief for years and only had to enable that when nVidia driver version superseded 84.56...!!! I know you dont want Ati, but the new R600 based cards that are touted to be faster than the 8x.xx series nVidia cards and hopefully wont suffer from any of the 8x.xx woes.

biker

ZB - the "last reliable nvidia card for thief" - is the 7900 as the 8800 still has various probs. And Im fairly sure in some FM's both stars and clouds appeared correctly - dont ask me which ones though.

Vanier - cant remember, as I said Im fairly sure. But that said I prefer fog that works as aposed to a sky that I aint gonna be looking at that much..

ZylonBane on 7/4/2007 at 16:28

Quote Posted by Bikerdude

So you're telling us that a 7900GT running Thief will render stars and clouds correctly?

Vanir on 7/4/2007 at 20:51

If your 6800 GT renders stars and clouds correctly I would really like to know which drivers you were using, because mine does not.

smithpd on 7/4/2007 at 23:02

Quote Posted by ZylonBane

So you're telling us that a 7900GT running Thief will render stars and clouds correctly?

No, he is not, and I think you know it perfectly well. We all acknowlege the bad sky problem with recent Nvidia. This is not a discussion of that or of how ATI can fix it.

So, that makes 7900 GT the latest so far. Do I hear one for 7950 GT?

Gingerbread Man on 7/4/2007 at 23:20

I don't know how they do things in London these days, but in most of the rest of the world we tend to have conversations in a mostly-linear "A then B" kinda way.

I guess what I'm trying to say is "Don't answer subsequent comments in a previous post, Bikerdude. It disrupts the flow of information and generally results in people thinking they're being ignored. Plus it's a pain and a half in my ass to have to read and unravel that kind of thing, and I know I'm not the only one."

bikerdude on 8/4/2007 at 08:47

Quote:

So, that makes 7900 GT the latest so far. Do I hear one for 7950 GT?

The only reason i didnt suggest the 7950(G71 core) is its essentially the same card with 512mb of memory(making it exactly the same as the 7800GTX in terms of performance and now memory). If you dont have a 7900GT(G70 core) and are thinking of getting one then of course get the 7950GT, plus these card overclocke very well - 650+ & 1600+

biker

David on 8/4/2007 at 09:00

Sequential replies are what we would like you to use the edit command for, surely you could have worked that out by now.

bikerdude on 8/4/2007 at 09:04

Quote Posted by David

Sequential replies are what we would like you to use the edit command for, surely you could have worked that out by now.

I didnt think there was any harm in being tidy, but fair enough.

Biker

smithpd on 8/4/2007 at 21:11

Quote Posted by Bikerdude

The only reason i didnt suggest the 7950(G71 core) is its essentially the same card with 512mb of memory(making it exactly the same as the 7800GTX in terms of performance and now memory).

Yes, but I am looking here for actual experience, not potential. There is a possibility that the driver version that recognizes and supports the 7950(G71 core) does not run thief properly.

So, does anyone have actual experience with the 7950 GT, and if so what drivers and tweaks did you use? I am particularly interested in this because I still have an AGP motherboard, and the 7950 GT is the only recent AGP card from Nvidia that I can find on Newegg. I have a feeling that time is running out on this part, too.