BrokenArts on 28/12/2007 at 16:46
You said it, enough is enough. I agree. They don't learn, and will continue to do the same shit over and over some more. Come on! Shoot me for saying this but, as Dr.Phil says. "Hows this workin for ya?" NOT. Oh I'm sure they'd shoot me for saying that to them.
Time to move on and get a better life people. I wish they would. Its the ones that try, that get shot down. I wonder if in our life time, we'll see change over there. Who knows, somehow, I doubt it.
Which is too bad.
aguywhoplaysthief on 29/12/2007 at 00:37
"Getting over shit" is a value that people aren't teaching enough.
American's ignorance of history looks more a more like an advantage as the years go on.
BrokenArts on 29/12/2007 at 00:55
They need to get over it, yet, we know, it ain't gonna happen, at least anytime soon. Yes, we've heard the history, how many god damn times do we have to hear it? Lets beat this dead horse some more shall we? Better yet, I'll let them do it, since they seem to get off on it. I'll just walk away, I have better things to do with my time.
Muzman on 29/12/2007 at 01:11
Quote Posted by Madin
Open assassination of a democratic candidate?
How many shots were fired at their former military dictator?
Sorry, I'm stunned, this is not a comment on western policy in Pakistan, its surprise at the climate within a nuclear power.
More coherent comment when I can manage.
Don't forget whoever it was blew up half a suburb trying to get her a few months ago.
It is scary though. I've always felt somewhat secure with people like her and Aung San Suu Kyi, their fame and notoriety protects them. Anyone against them knows you can't just get rid of them, the people and the world are watching. 'til now anyway.
At the moment I
feel the only appropriate response is for most of Pakistan to rise as one and roll Musharaf and friends into the sea, anyone in the army who doesn't join in goes with them.
Easy for me to say of course.
theBlackman on 29/12/2007 at 04:28
Well, we could just NUKE EM ALL and let ALLAH or GOD sort out the good ones. ;)
Tocky on 29/12/2007 at 05:23
What's great is that northern extremists can kill her, claim credit for it, and still reap the benefit of increased anger at Musharaf. It's win win for them. The western countries will blame him and the US, although the US had been encouraging the power sharing plan, and incite the fragmenting which benefits them. You can't feel sorry for Musharaf because of his bonehead power plays of late and you can't feel sorry for the US because they are evil empirialists. Western self loathing works so well for them.
You have to admire the beauty of it while hating the stoneage bastards.
Edit for Madin: The military dictator has had several attempts on his life. That was just an observation and not a political comment. I'm no fan.
demagogue on 29/12/2007 at 05:24
Quote Posted by Muzman
At the moment I
feel the only appropriate response is for most of Pakistan to rise as one and roll Musharaf and friends into the sea, anyone in the army who doesn't join in goes with them.
It's already gotten more complicated than that.
One of the main threats about Bhutto is that she and Musharaf had aligned on the same side against extremists, so whichever won the election, the other would have supported on that point, and they would crack down hard with a unified front on both sides of the political aisle. And right now the military is the main thing keeping order in the country.
So suddenly Musharaf and the military has become one of the main friendlies for Bhutto supporters against the radicals. It complicates all the protests going on, and who we "civilized folk" should support, because the bad-guys don't have a clear face to protest against, but are more like a hidden enemy. This is one of those protests where there isn't even a clear cause they can identifiably protest against (in the concrete political sense), but just a outlet of pure frustration and anger.
Quote Posted by Tocky
northern extremists can kill her, claim credit for it, and still reap the benefit of increased anger at Musharaf. It's win win for them.
Yeah, this is the quintessential strategy of the contemporary strain of extremism in timing terrorism near to elections, esp characteristic of Al Qaida-type thinking. It's one reason why the reaction to any terrorist event has to be very carefully thought out, because any hint that it plays into their hands will lead to an explosion of terrorism (an old lesson from the 1956 Suez crisis that we keep having to re-learn the hard way). So that's why it's even more important to support Musharaf and the military establishment there in the short term. Being a lawyer, I'm also not a fan of his opportunism, but that's how the situation seems to be panning out.
Tocky on 29/12/2007 at 05:56
Quote Posted by demagogue
This is one of those protests where there isn't even a clear cause they can identifiably protest against (in the concrete political sense), but just a outlet of pure frustration and anger.
Wouldn't it be nice if they were smart enough to take Al Queda at it's word when they claim credit and direct the anger there? They could still oppose Musharaf and I don't think anyone could blame them. It is possible of course that he was stupid enough to assasinate her and plant the claim credit and I'm sure consiracy nuts are on that now with scale mockups and trajectories. Still, what the hell would it take for them to direct blame at people known to blow themselves up for Allah and his greater stupidity plan? Never happen I guess.
demagogue on 29/12/2007 at 06:55
I wouldn't put it past Musharaf or Mossad to have assassinated her, but the benefit it would presumably be intended to provide doesn't grok very well in this situation (in the Nash equilibrium sense) -- the fallout is destabilizing for the moderates, and it threatens a popular uprising against Musharaf, even if it helps him in the short run; they aren't the sort of strategies you'd expect for someone trying to maximize their positions. Whereas the benefit for an Al Qaida (or AQ inspired) group practically sells itself, and there are much fewer dots to connect.
