King Ronald on 13/7/2002 at 15:53
Well, if your going to start saying things like "In the future...." then say "They could invent super-light weapons" to finish, then I'll say
"In the future, scientists could invent super-homing bullets fired from special (standard issue after the pistol wars of 2030) dual pistols that weigh nothing, meaning you could run around with dual pistols and still have great accuracy."
Theres mud in your eye.
Anyway - on the reinforcements note, i'd like a GTA style thing if i start to raise hell. First you get cops, then SWAT (or whatever), then special MJ12 assassin MiB types, then the army, and then they simply blow up the building.
So, lets set the maximum reinforcements limit at....ooh.....sixteen hundred and were going to be on track to realism. ;)
ICEBreaker on 13/7/2002 at 20:40
It is funny how after I have invalidated most of what you said, you still insist on coming up with a moot point. Even without assuming lighter materias (it is a fact we are making lighter materials of the same strength all the time), JC can still easily handle the weight of his inventory. Hence like the rest of your list of so called unrealistic things in DX, it is in fact realistic. As for "homing" bullets, yes they can implement some type of heat seeking bullets which would allow one to shoot without aiming (see Fifth Element). But the absence of aiming skills would just ruin the gameplay and so it should not be added to DX2.
faetal on 14/7/2002 at 00:39
Quote:
Originally posted by ICEBreaker But the absence of aiming skills would just ruin the gameplay and so it should not be added to DX2. in your opinion...
ICEBreaker on 14/7/2002 at 06:02
Yes my opinion and also the opinion of the vast majority. What is the point of a first person shooter which requires no aiming? But then you don't really care about this topic. You just want to say something negative to me.
King Ronald on 14/7/2002 at 17:38
Yep ;)
Seriously though, folks, this whole dual pistol thing is absurd. It's such a minor bloody thing that no-one should really care either way, unless you started to have major enemies who used them; thereby forcing the dual weapon concept on the players.
Its just a mirror image weapons graphic - not a massive piece of coding. It's not like I'm asking for a specific level, or a completely new thing - just the option to be able to click "use as dual" in my inventory if i highlight two pistols. Big deal. I'm not sure what sort of play-style you use, ICEbreaker, (hacker, perhaps? heh) but you seem to favour big-ass machine guns. I like those. I like pistols as well. If you come up with the idea for another machine gun in the near future, I'm not going to lambast it simply cos I prefer firing a whacking great big magnum - why would it affect me? There are loads of weapons in Deus Ex that I never even used once, such as the Plasma Rifle, or the Baton, or the Swords (from throwing knife to Dragons Tooth) - hell, I wasn't too hot on the tactical considerations of Scramble Grenades, but that doesn't mean they should be removed. If they include dual pistols even as an option in DE2, then really you shouldn't notice them. You'll play through, you might see the odd pistol lying on a desktop but that won't matter to you - you'll be looking for more machine guns. Just like a complete stealth-master won't ever look at a Flamethrower, but that doesn't affect him. You're just being a bit churlish.
ICEBreaker on 15/7/2002 at 18:07
It should be obvious that I am not a fan of the machine gun. I tend to use the right tools for the right situation. Had you just said you liked using dual pistols and hopes to see it in DX2, this discussion would never have existed. You are entitled to your own opinion. I merely mentioned (on another thread) that I dislike dual pistols. It was a general statement about my position on this issue, to give the thread a bit of balance. I was not attacking you. Then you launched into this whole thing, and went on and on about how great it is, and how amazing that anyone could dislike it. Afterwards you wanted me to explain to you why it was unrealistic. I gave you a detailed account and then you started to get a bit rude and quite unconstructive telling me that realism is unimportant (then why ask me in the first place)? That got me annoyed and so started the whole discussion. I don't think I am the churlish one. I wasn't the one who insisted on having dual pistols and insisted that everyone else agrees. If you start doing that, I'd start insisting it shouldn't be in DX2 as well.
faetal on 15/7/2002 at 18:17
Quote:
Originally posted by ICEBreaker But then you don't really care about this topic. You just want to say something negative to me. And you say this because?
ICEBreaker on 16/7/2002 at 02:04
Because you don't post anything here for months and the only thing you can get out is to poke at a tiny point. You are obviously not part of this discussion.
faetal on 16/7/2002 at 15:52
True enough.
I am a more passive member of TTLG forums as I have a limited amount of time to spend reading and generally just lurk for the most part.
I have read all of this thread and generally I am neither for nor against the 2 pistol idea. I quite like 2 pistols based just that it 'feels nice' in some games. I also completely see your point about realsim and lack of reason to use 2 pistols but seeing as the game char in Deus Ex tends to be a blank vessel in order for the player to imprint their favoured persona onto, I can also see why it would be unrealistic to disable the option to pick up and use another pistol.
I wasn't getting at your comments IB as I generally respect you in that you lend a balanced account to most discussions and obviously you have a higher than average intellect without being arrogant about it. I was just playfully tossing in that comment with tongue firmly planted in cheek, as the discussion had kind of petered out.
Absolutely no harm meant.
I am sure that DX2 will hold its merits perfectly without the addition of dual pistols and I'm sure I'll love it just as much with DP also.
Just because I don't post regularly, doesn't mean I'm not allowed to contribute.
regards,
fætal
PowerCrazy on 17/7/2002 at 04:41
That is PRECISELY the reason i'm against dual pistols King Ronald. Because the easy way to do it, is just a mirrored graphic of another pistol... But that is the WORSE way to model two pistols. It would be EXTREMELY hard to model (Accurately) the two unique fireing points for the pistols, while simultaneously adjusting the fireing points from the recoil of the other pistol. In other words, when you hold two pistols, and you fire one, the other will react in a random way because of the recoil and imbalancing. In the DX2 realism universe, that would be important to the game. And incredibly difficult to model especially within the restraint of the Unreal Engine. ( No I odn't know all the specifics of the unreal engine but i'd assume the type of realistic modelling we as DX players demand is not as important in Unreal 2002) Now how about the arm that you see, in a game that is very detailed (like DX2 screenshots appear) I don't want my left and right arms looking IDENTICAL, i mean they should be similar but obvious mirror images of each other would not quite work especially if you want the dynamic lighting. In addition even a heavilly augmented agent would get tired of holding two pistols out in-front of him FOREVER running around and killing things. If you have EVER fired even one pistol you know that it has a significant recoil, even with your body "balanced" by havign one hand at your side or helping to stabilize the gun. Now lets say you have two pistols. when you fired one, and then the other, one shot would most likely go in the "general" direction of the intended target, while the other one would go totally wild, hitting in a random area in a 180 degree cone infront of you possibly even flying out of your hand. Being TOTALLY useless for ANYTHING even "supressive fire" In fact let me get back on that subject. After thinking about it for a bit i believe that if i ever came up against an idiot with two pistols trying to shoot at me not only would i no longer be scared for my life, i would charge him, and probably kill him with my single pistol. while he got off about one "aimed" shot and like 4 or 5 totally useless imbalancing (for him) shots. Wow good thing he had dual pistols. Now I can replenish twice as much of my ammo. Thanks stupid terrorist. :thumb:
Now I know i said i'd drop the dual pistol argument, BUT the mirror graphic thing was just was too much.
