Picasso on 24/6/2002 at 23:41

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Another disclaimer: My firearms knowledge comes from a lot of reading, and I've never actually touched one, although I recently turned eighteen and am trying to.




You're not really aiming, you're basically pointing two guns at whoever your enemy is and hoping you hit them, so no, not really "effectively".

This requires a bit of explanation. Here's a pic of what the sights on a pistol generally look like:

http://www.mmcsight.com/images/prod/gun_glock.gif

What you do is you line up the gun so that the single dot in front is level with and inbetween the two dots in back. When they're aligned, whatever the front dot is pointing at is where your shot is going to go. Look at this:

http://www.glock-1.com/Parts_Acc/Images/mep_sigh.gif

That's oversimplifying it a bit, but that's how you aim a pistol, in a nutshell.

Have you ever played Operation Flashpoint? The aiming and firing in that game was very realistic, if you want a good reference.

The problem with two guns is that it's hard to keep both aligned and on your target at the same time, especially if you're firing rapidly. Not much accuracy there.

IRL, the only situation where I think you might want two pistols is if you're doing covering (suppressive) fire, i.e. you don't care about hitting your target, you just want to put enough rounds in the air so that he'll hide behind whatever he can. Usually, in wartime, this is done to make your target much less of a threat while your squadmates sneak around the side and shoot him from there. Even then, an Assault Rifle would be preferable to two pistols.



Having never done it, I can't say for sure. I don't think it would simply be a case of taking twice as long, though, since you are in effect juggling twice as many things at a time, which will only slow you down.



I really don't see why you'd have weapon malfunctions any more often then you would otherwise. I mean, I could be wrong, but I don't think one person with two guns will have any more misfires than two men with a gun each.



In my opinion, yes. Pistols would be underpowered otherwise. Submachine guns, Assault Rifles and Sniper Rifles all have better damage, better range, and usually better ammo capacities. A pistol has... what? Mobility? Style?

If DX2 were focussing on strict realism, then no way in hell, but since they're aiming for excellent gameplay balance, I think dual pistols would be a good addition, if they had significant accuracy and reloading disadvantages.

Picasso on 25/6/2002 at 05:05

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If I want realism first and foremost, I play Rainbow Six/Ghost Recon/Operation Flashpoint. When I'm playing in a futuristic sci-fi world, I prefer that gameplay take precedence, with realism as a secondary concern.

For me, I think the only real downside would be a loss of immersion (and I do love my immersion). But there are many advantages to having dual pistols (enhanced characterization since a pistol-oriented character is much more viable to play, plus expanded player abilities and more tactical options, plus it's damn fun) that I feel outweigh the negative aspect.

Anyway, DX has a fictional futuristic setting. We can't necessarily apply today's realism to the world of DX, since we're not using our own idea of realism anymore, we're using the realism of this fantasy world. It's important to distinguish between these different types of realism.

Given the abilities of an augmented whatever-Alex-is, who's to say that it's THAT unrealistic in DX's setting? Someone that's a Master with the pistol skill (or whatever DX2's equivalent might be, Bio-Mods, whatever) is going to be pretty damn good with a pistol. I'm not saying that a completely pistol-oriented character should have sniper-like accuracy with dual pistols, but they should be a definite possibility for mid-close range combat.

Here's what I think, allow players to use two pistols simultaneously. But when they do:

- Significant penalties to accuracy, both the maximum accuracy (how close the crosshairs are) and the amount of accuracy gain (how quickly they come together).
- Something like triple the reload time. Reloading would be a big moment of vulnerability, and the smart player would plan for it far in advance.
- Remember that when using dual pistols, you'd be using them because you want to fire a lot of bullets indiscriminately in a short amount of time, and you'd be expending a lot of ammo. As opposed to a single pistol, with which you'd shoot straight, smart and sparingly.

Using dual pistols isn't always going to be the tactically smart thing to do, in fact I think it would rarely be the most rational option. But who am I to tell someone how to play DX2?

This is all purely academic anyway... I'm certain Ion Storm has already made their decision in this matter, and I'm fairly certain that there won't be any dual pistols in DX2. I just don't think they'd be willing to spend the time to add it.

Phydeaux on 25/6/2002 at 22:16

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Hm, we've got the same discussion on dual pistols going on in 2 different threads. Consider this an ammendum to what I said in the other thread.

Ignoring realism and what would happen in real life, what would be the point of holding 2 pistols in gameplay? Obviously, it would be for double the fire power. But what would be the advantage in using 2 pistols over say...a shotgun, or a submachine gun, or an assault rifle (assuming these weapons in DX2 do what they should).

None. Absoultely none. Oh, style? Pfff.

ICEBreaker on 26/6/2002 at 03:35

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I guess people who like dual pistols are those who places priority on firepower rather than those who love marksmanship. For someone like me who loves accurate shooting (single fire mode rulez) I can't stand the thought of dual pistols. Of course options are always good as it caters to other less accomplished shooters.

ICEBreaker on 27/6/2002 at 06:07

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There is nothing wrong with wanting a more destructive gameplay. Everyone has a different style of play. I just don't see how having two pistols can give you that satisfaction. What you need is a minigun.

JC's augmented vision allows him to wear sunglasses for style at no cost to his performance. I don't see anything wrong with the stealth pistol. It is less efficient than other weapons, but if you have nothing left, it is a good fall back weapon. The trench coat allows him to fit into a slightly more incognito role than a soldier's uniform with the UNATCO ident markings. And yes, JC is a super agent, perhaps the best in the world, I am not sure what your point to all this is.

There is a difference between engaging bots with a baton and using dual pistols. One requires extra coding and time (a direct sanctioning), while the other does not. If one day, games are so immersive that one could literally do things that were unintended by the programmers, then by all means use two pistols. I obviously don't want coding added to prevent people from doing that.

As for John Woo, the first time I saw one of his films, I though he was talented. It was really original. Using two guns was fun to watch. Then the second film, third film, and I realised he should have been a one-hit wonder. Seeing doves fly out for the 10th time, and silly unrealistic combat is enough to put me off his films for good. He seems to have run out of ideas right after his first film. Recycling the same thing over and over again is really dull.