Alias on 27/4/2003 at 04:01

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Non-lethal, bah. I can't tell you how many times I played through the original Thief game before I was willing to play on any mode other than normal because I wanted to kill everyone (it turns out the game is a lot easier when you only knock people out). There was something satisfying about knowing that when Lord Bafford got back to his mansion, not only were all his valuables missing, but his entire staff lay dead at the bottom of his swimming pool. My bloodlust has largely subsided in Thief but not in Deus Ex. I have played a non-lethal game or two, but it is so much more fun knowing everyone I meet dies. I still smile every time I blow that little kid away in the second mission so I can get my Soy Food back. I love the way they drop like rocks when you shoot them in the head while they are facing you. I don't know what it is, but there is no satisfaction when I know they are only unconscious.

Naartjie on 27/4/2003 at 10:29

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But isn't it so much better to have the people standing around and the end of a level thinking "wtf?! How did he get past without alerting us?", rather than "oh shit, I'm dead...better start shambling around and groaning"? As almost every briefing says....real professionals don't leave a mess :)

quiller on 27/4/2003 at 14:14

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I agree totally with the point that if you treat Deus Ex as a bog-standard FPS, it does get boring pretty quickly - same with trying to religiously stick to non-lethal. The way that I approached it was that there's a distinction between lethal versus simply going in with guns blazing (if you play on realistic, straight up gunfights are pretty hard anyway). You can be lethal in DX, but still be creative and also elegant about it - using the barrels and crates to set ambushes and change AI paths, using gas grenades to stun opponents so they are easy targets for quick kills, setting the bots/turrets to turn on their own men, inducing opponents to shoot each other, distracting opponents with flasks/trolleys/chairs, etc. I think that DX is probably the only aggresive game where I navigated virtually every level at the speed of an arthritic blind snail - I crouched and walked everywhere, and the amount of scouting and recon I did before deciding on any action, lethal or not, added a big strategic element for me. I loved the fact that JC could get killed so easily, cos this meant that you had to think of pre-planned retreats (including barrels and tnt crates), defensive potisions, where the med/repair bots were etc..., things that I never worried about in something like Serious Sam.

There were also opportunities in a lot of levels to affect the environment which would then negate, kill or district opponents (the greasel labs in the MJ12 prison, the gas in the helicopter base in HK etc..) - if you played it smart, and didn't go in shooting, you could spot these setups and save yourself a lot of time, even though it was lethal. The thing I liked about this type of option, was that it was elegant - like in the Commandos games, you could methodically kill everyone on the level and achieve your objective, but there was usually an alternative via the 'elegant solution', which would result in a strategic win, and it was pretty cool too. After about halfway thru DX (only played it once so far), I tried to keep to this type of strategy - use whatever approach was best for the situation (non-lethal and/or killing), but try to keep it elegant, and play it out however the situation goes. This was the other big factor against strictly non-lethal for me - it kinda broke the immersion by reloading if I killed someone that I was actually trying to take down non-lethally. I prefer to take what comes, so that even if i wasted that thermoptic cameo that I was going to use, then so be it. Overall, I guess I played it more like a combination of Hitman & Thief, with bouts of Doom 2.

PS. I think I would have been more likely to play DX with greater stealth if there were several additions to the gameplay (not a criticism, I think DX is a great game - this is just wishful thinking).
- If the AI's responded to the bodies of dead comrades in a more organised AND aggressive fashion;
- if I had a better indication of how stealthy I was (i know, too much thief)
- if there were long range uses of the gas grenade and scramble grenade (from the GEP gun perhaps)
- if I could use food, alcohol, and cigarettes to distract the guards on a more permanent basis, by having them get drunk, nick off behind the shed for a smoke, or stop patrolling to eat that candy bar (and if I could drug the food and booze, that would be even better).

MHK on 28/4/2003 at 03:26

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I've played through the game both ways for the sake of replayability. Yes it's entirely possible to get through the entire game without having to kill anyone. For example:

* In the NSF HQ in the Mole People settlement you can just sneak over and talk to the accountant guy and all the NSF will stand down.
* When fighting Anna get her down below 10% health and she'll flee, opening the UNATCO door in the process.
* When you fight Gunther, do the same thing. It's easier with the Targeting Aug.
* When you fight Simons the first time, run away.
* When Simons attacks you again at the Area 51 blast doors, dodge him until he runs out of ammo, or just lure him away.

And then choose the "Merge with AI" ending so that no one has to die.;)

rachel on 28/4/2003 at 14:52

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To me, nothing... He was so happy to see I had escaped the Underwater lab without a scratch that with all the excitement of meeting again he ate his DTS and got decapitated...

Or was it <i>my</i> DTS? I'm so clumsy sometimes...:p



<small>Basically, IIRC he tells you the same thing as in the sealab, with some updates.</small>