demagogue on 18/7/2021 at 20:30
Yes, although it wasn't a daytime soap. It played in prime time. Actually Dallas and Knots Landing were two others like that.
I don't know. For some reason I feel like the ones that played in prime time were a little different from the classic soap opera mold, like they played in season blocks whereas the daytime soaps were on endless wandering paths. But maybe that's just a misperception based on the time format, marketing, target demographic, etc.
I mean once you start putting enough scrutiny on a show, there's not that much different from a soap opera and any tv show that has a persistent arc. Why aren't the Sopranos, Deadwood, or The Wire also soap operas if you really get down to it?
zombe on 18/7/2021 at 20:49
Quote Posted by demagogue
Why are you repeating the exact point he made and then asking him for a counterexample to his own point? I think you misread his post to say the reverse of his point.
You think correctly.
Quote Posted by demagogue
Twin Peaks, V, Max Headroom (iirc), Dynasty (borderline soap opera though)...
Ooh, right. Twin peaks certainly counts.
"V" does not sound familiar, might have not seen it ... any guesses on how it has aged?
I recently watched "seven days". It is quite terrible - yet i watched it anyway. Shows tend to mirror the society at the time and seeing that bleeding through with all of its weirdness/awfulness is kind of fascinating.
demagogue on 18/7/2021 at 21:14
V was about an alien invasion of lizard aliens wearing human skin, first coming as friendly "visitors" and later being revealed as human-hungry "victors".
The special fx have certainly aged, but the story format was ahead of its time, revealing the true intentions of the aliens bit by bit. It had some really memorable scenes, although it started to derail at some point and quickly unraveled from there. So it was only 1 shaky season long and especially jumped the shark when a human character got pregnant with an alien baby.
So I think the concept is still fresh, but it wasn't properly planned to slow burn past the first half of the season and the writing would feel dated and kind of cringe if you watched it now.
Pyrian on 19/7/2021 at 05:09
So was that the source of the alien-lizard-people conspiracy, or just based on it?
Thirith on 19/7/2021 at 08:47
Twin Peaks is a special one, though, in various ways. It originally aired in 1990/91, so at best it's at the very tail end of the '80s, but more than that, in many ways it was a self-conscious pastiche (or even parody) of soap operas, so obviously it would take pointers from that genre.
And I guess the question about what exactly constitutes a soap opera and whether The Sopranos etc. would qualify would mean a longer conversation about genres and definitions, which would probably derail this thread. Happy to take part in such a conversation, but chances are it would end up similar to such discussions on what constitutes an RPG or an immersive sim, and that way lies madness, albeit potentially interesting madness.
And I dimly remember V, mainly the miniseries (less so the series that followed it). Robert "Freddy Kruger" Englund was in that one as a somewhat dim, friendly lizard dude, wasn't he?
demagogue on 19/7/2021 at 12:05
Yes! And Michael Ironsides was the hero!
For all the hate it gets, it did have quite a few things to cheer about, which I guess along with the camp & uniqueness has given it a reputation as a cult classic.
The wiki definition of a soap is that it focuses basically exclusively on domestic life, which is what basically disqualifies Sopranos, Deadwood, The Wire, et al, which while they do follow domestic life, it's not the (only) centerpiece. I think that's probably right, so I'm not going to be the one arguing for any weird scope of soaps that would include them. But ... eh, then you leave out General Hospital and Grey's Anatomy which are kind of textbook soaps too.
I feel like it's also something to do with the format... it's mostly focused around relationships, seat of the pants writing & cheap production, which make for drawn out scenes centered on long-winded conversations in single rooms, and over-drama to the point of bathos. And domestic life (and the teen/college equivalent, cf. 90210 & Melrose Place) & hospital drama seem to fit that bill best.
heywood on 19/7/2021 at 21:38
I've been exploring 1980s TV via Roku channel and Tubi and I like it better than I remembered.
One of the things I like about 20th century TV is that most shows have self-contained episodes. Soaps were the only serials then, and a story that required multiple episodes to tell was a miniseries. I could enjoy watching a show when it was convenient, without feeling committed to a time slot every week, or worrying about missing something important to the story if I missed an episode. And now if I have 50 min to kill before falling asleep, I can just throw on any one of those 80s dramas knowing I'll have a neatly wrapped up ending when I close my eyes.
And it will be a positive ending, too. Those old 1980s action/dramas were full of idealism and forward-looking optimism. In 80s TV, the future is always going to get better, good people always get good outcomes, the bad guys are always going to get caught, and the country is full of private dicks and strange foundations looking around for victims to save and bad guys to go vigilante on.
It seems like today's TV leans more in the direction of serials, and reality shows of course. And the tone of today's TV dramas seems darker.
rachel on 21/7/2021 at 12:48
Twin Peaks is widely considered a watershed moment in TV for its story arc and production values, so I wouldn't necessarily hold it as an example of 80's TV. It broke that mold and established new standards for doing TV that are still holding well to this day. Most current beloved classics like The Sopranos, The Wire, Breaking Bad, True Detective and so on, can trace their roots straight back to Twin Peaks.
Thirith on 21/7/2021 at 15:06
I'm not sure I really buy that, because at its best Twin Peaks was very much its own thing, as anything done by David Lynch would be, and at its worst it was a parody of itself. I'm not saying that the Golden Age of Television didn't take anything from Twin Peaks, but IMO you're overestimating its direct effects in terms of establishing standards.