Kolya on 28/10/2020 at 09:56
I don't think the German '68 generation went too far in their break with their parents, a full break was unavoidable. This is addressed in the book, when he says: You cannot try to understand AND judge. It's either or. Because if you tried to understand you would also have to judge yourself.
As for book vs movie: The book is about the boy, the first-person-narrator and how he and his generation deal with the guilt of their parents. The character of Hanna (the former Auschwitz guard) is important but actually only as a catalyst to that dealing. She is only ever seen through his eyes.
In the film Hanna is played by Kate Winslet who does an awesome job, but now she's this beautiful, enigmatic woman who exists by herself. You tend to identify with her much more, trying to understand her. She becomes a centerpiece of her own and the film centers on her guilt, losing sight of his feelings of guilt, which the book is about.
Gryzemuis on 28/10/2020 at 13:59
A few years ago I read up a bit on WWII. One of the things that surprised me was he relative light punishment that the Nazi's got. Here's a list of indictments and sentences:
(
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Axis_personnel_indicted_for_war_crimes)
Only 12 people got sentenced to death at the Nuremburg trials. For the rest it was mostly campguards that were sentenced to death. Only two hunderd Nazis sentenced to death total, it seems. But what surprised me more that most Nazis that were sentenced to jail, got out during the early/mid fifties. And by the end of the fifties, most of them were free again. Weird. I'm not sure many people realize this.
So by 1960, all the Nazis that were under 50 years old in 1945, were still younger than 65 and still working and active in German society. No wonder that the young Germans (born after the war) wanted nothing to do with the older generation. While at the same time, I guess the power was still mostly with the older generation. Some of whom might have been Nazis and some might not have been.
But the Germans are fully aware of their past. They are not ignoring or denying it. They paid through their noses for the Wiedergutmachung. (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiedergutmachung) They paid 100 billion mark (~50 billion euro). The Japanse paid roughly (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_reparations#World_War_II_Japan) a percent of that. Sometimes I catch a talkshow on German TV, where the subject is WWII. They are all aware of what their country did. The subject in not avoided. Kids learn about it in school.
So I think you guys are right. I think the Germans have dealth with their guilt and responsibility much better than the Japanese did.
Kolya on 28/10/2020 at 14:48
Yeah, as Bernhard Schlink said in an interview: It's slightly uncanny how we dealt with the past with the same efficiency that we previously mass murdered with.
And then we did it all again, when Eastern Germany was dissolved into the BRD. Every university prof was exchanged, no questions asked, every public official etc. Very efficient but not very subtle or nuanced. The DDR was declared an injustice-regime and then wiped out, the good and the bad. That's what a lot of people from the eastern parts still hold a grudge about, and why they are so keen on their home country and its history (except Nazi times usually, but not always).
I'm not one of them. I know that you had to get completely in party line to achieve any official position in the DDR. Even in order to become a teacher and definitely to become a university prof. So anyone who was someone in the DDR also carried guilt. Even if the privately may have uttered some resentments now and then, they weren't in the resistance, as many later liked to paint it.
And what would have been the alternative to a hard break with the DDR? Trying to weed out the guilty while everyone's lying about their involvement is impossible. You'd have to accept that you can't get them all and hence let many of them continue to teach and decide in the government, which is what partly happened after 1945. So the experience of dealing with the Nazi past had a strong influence on how the DDR was dealt with. The generation of '68 was in power and they didn't want to make the same mistakes their parents had made.
Starker on 28/10/2020 at 16:16
I watched Das Leben Der Anderen the other day and honestly it left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth. I can't really even put a finger on why exactly, but perhaps it was the very idea of a Stasi officer with a heart of gold. No doubt the movie is masterfully done and succeeds in conveying the oppressive atmosphere, but the entire thing felt, well, staged for the lack of a better word. It felt like it indulged in its own drama just a bit too much.
Gryzemuis on 29/10/2020 at 23:06
Mmm, a Netflix series with chess in it. Maybe I should watch it. Is it any good?
SubJeff on 31/10/2020 at 07:45
I'm quite liking it. Interestingly weird tone.
Saw Mandalorian S2E1. Good stuff.
Also saw Truth Seekers Ep1. Not convinced yet.
Kolya on 31/10/2020 at 09:57
I like it too although by the 3rd episode I have a feeling I know where this is going: Her adoptive mom mom dies from lung cancer, she crashes on drugs during her most important tournament and ends up as a janitor playing a promising young girl.
I hope I'm wrong.
Gryzemuis on 1/11/2020 at 03:59
I watched 2 episodes of The Queen's Gambit. Thanks for recommendation. This might be good.