Gryzemuis on 19/4/2020 at 13:57
I'm gonna watch Devs then.
Is Westworld worth watching ? I've started with season 1 last week. I've seen 4 episodes now. It's good, but it didn't grab me by the throat yet. The problem is, I think, that've read everywhere that the series drops off after season 1. Supposedly the storylines in season 2 will become more complex, at the point where you have no clue what you're looking at, and no clue what's happening. Is that true ? I was afraid that if I'd watch season 1, it would be frustrating to not watch any further. Or I'd get tempted, watch some season 2, and also be frustrated.
So what do you think ? Is Westworld worth watch ? Only one season ? All seasons ? (I thought season 4 was the last season, and it was already done ?)
Sulphur on 19/4/2020 at 14:22
Westworld is interesting. It may never completely grab you (I know it didn't me), but it's always interesting. Season 2 is quite a drop-off, because its themes aren't particularly complex (the big ticket concept is the nature of free will and how that intersects with machine intelligence and the robot uprising), but it's presented in a way that's befuddled enough to suggest complexity - it becomes work to figure out which timelines you're actually watching, and that effort isn't quite paid off in the end for what you get. Season 3's a recalibration of sorts, but its through-line is still the matter of free will and determinism, and the weaknesses are still there, but it does a better job of balancing out looking cool and throwing in set pieces to offset the cerebration.
SubJeff on 19/4/2020 at 15:35
Westworld Season 2 is a trainwreck in the presentation. I can't finish the last episode - I'll watch 10 minutes and nope out. I hear S3 is good though...
Will be giving Devs a go.
Watched the first episode of Tales from The Loop. It reminded me a bit of Shane Carruth's stuff, without the depth.
demagogue on 20/4/2020 at 04:21
Well Suphur is going to pressure me to give a more objective review of Devs. It could be fairly charged with style over substance, although IMO it's better than Garland's Ex Machina, first just because there are more characters and plot to work with. I really liked the style, so I didn't mind.
But on the substance ... I said the plot held together -- aside from a few unmotivated actions or acting-out-of-character moments, but even then they were done in the service of the plot, so better than perfect characters in a more plodding story -- but I think the reason is because the backbone of most of the plot was a caper. If it had just been all thought experiments, it wouldn't have kept up the momentum like it did. Each episode was pretty good at moving the story forward and having a strong flow, which I gave extra credit maybe. I also liked the characters so was rooting for them, and it was funny, very creepy and morose too, but funny even in those moments. It had a way of taking its ideas really seriously while still openly laughing at itself that I liked. So that made it easier for me to suspend my objective critical tendencies watching it.
I think, any in event, it's a good data point to compare alongside Westworld. They're exploring similar territory and trying to do the same mix of action and token cyberpunk philosophy. If you like watching one, you'll probably like watching the other.
SubJeff on 20/4/2020 at 08:57
Saw the first episode of Devs and had to watch the second.
I like the style. I didn't realise it was an Alex Garland project until the credits. So far, so good. Better than Ex Machina? Hmmm. That's some high praise in my opinion, but so far it's definitely holding up.
rachel on 20/4/2020 at 09:35
This weekend I finished The Good Place. The show had a quirky premise but ended up being extremely interesting and very rich in its themes. The cast is perfect, both individual performances and as an ensemble, and I feel that it really made a dry subject like philosophy so accessible to its audience. It's great that the show runners knew to end it at the right time too, rather than drag it on needlessly. All in all, heartily recommended! I did not expect a seemingly little show to captivate me so much :)
Thirith on 20/4/2020 at 09:38
Does it do more interesting things with its ideas than Westworld? Personally, I find that Westworld is more concerned with appearing smart and deep and philosophical than it is successful at pulling this off. The structural games it plays often strike me as a smokescreen more than anything else. IMO it's most successful when it focuses on the characters and when the ideas are more implicit than when they are foregrounded. Which is fine: I like the actors and I generally like the character stories, but especially in S2 I'd say that the Big Ideas got in the way more often than not due to how clunkily they were handled.
Sulphur on 20/4/2020 at 09:53
@raph: Yeah, The Good Place was a beautiful show. I can't say I ever found it funnier than eliciting a wry chuckle out of me, but it had an assuredness to itself, a strong handle on its concepts, and at least half of its MVPs were characters I'd want to be friends with if I knew them. The ending, as well, has a special place in my heart for how it wrapped the characters' threads up. You know a show's done something right when you find yourself missing its characters every time someone talks about it.
@Thirith: I'd say, on balance, maybe just a little bit more than Westworld S3 so far. dema's noted that its plotting is strong, and I agree with that -- that's the reason why you want to know what happens in the end -- but in terms of what it does with its philosophical ideologies, it's fairly definitive in what it thinks is the right answer and barrels into that past the halfway mark, for both good and ill to the story. There's also some fairly overt exposition that doesn't disguise itself as anything but, so regardless of stylistic heft it can be clunky with its characters and execution. But that doesn't take away from the fact that both it and Westworld are worthwhile watches.
rachel on 20/4/2020 at 15:43
I agree, it can be clunky sometimes but it's got an earnestness and chemistry to it that more than makes up for the flaws. Definitely a "more than a sum of its part" kind of thing. And as you said, they knew how to end it the right way, just like Bojack did. It's bittersweet and kind of nostalgic, but also necessary to move on.
I need to catch up on Westworld. I watched S1 and I think I saw the first episode of S2 but I'm not sure.
Sulphur on 20/4/2020 at 17:06
Sorry, raph. I think Thirith was talking about Devs, which was what I was referring to in the second half of my post. You should probably see that, too!
But anyway, to address what you said, The Good Place's clunkiness is honestly kind of endearing. I never quite bought Jason's lunkheadedness, for instance, but it was never anything but sweet. I agree - as a show, it's greater than the sum of its parts. But some of those parts also shine so very brightly anyway.