Gray on 1/4/2019 at 00:37
I tried that, but apparently it's unavailable in my country. I'm guessing it'll be on some TV channel in two years.
Starker on 1/4/2019 at 04:05
Might want to try some of Adam Curtis's films, then. They are even on Youtube, though the quality is crap:
[video=youtube;eJ3RzGoQC4s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ3RzGoQC4s[/video]
Gray on 1/4/2019 at 05:48
I thoroughly enjoyed his Hypernormalisation, so I'll give it a go, thanks.
It's still on BBC iPlayer. Did not watch his Bitter Lake yet.
froghawk on 6/4/2019 at 05:48
Dude, it's a metaphor. Don't take it so literally. Think about it in light of the prison system, capitalist supply chains, etc. and then it will click. Us = US(A). It isn't meant to operate with real world logic, because that's not the point of the movie. It would indeed be a bad movie if that was really what it was trying to do, but it's not.
froghawk on 6/4/2019 at 17:22
Alright, but you missed the point of the film entirely. I didn't say I loved it necessarily, and I don't ultimately care what your opinion on it is, but at least try engaging with it on its own terms.
Sulphur on 6/4/2019 at 18:08
I'm fairly sure Us is meant to be looked at in a certain way, the same way Get Out's commentary on racism was meant to be interpreted a certain way. You're not wrong in that everyone's entitled to their opinions, but if you miss the context of the entire movie and then complain about not getting it, that's like buying spaghetti and then complaining about its limited utility as a pipe cleaner.
froghawk on 6/4/2019 at 20:57
^Exactly.
You may be right that it's difficult to get this film if you're not American, but that's not a valid reason to write it off. For instance, I didn't entirely get Shin Godzilla because I'm not immersed enough in Japanese culture, but I was still able to appreciate elements of the metaphor and see that it was a great film. Of course art is subjective, but these films were written with a very specific intention to make a clear statement about the societies they come from, and ignoring that is a refusal to actually engage with the work. It's one thing to criticize a film while understanding what the work was trying to convey, but it's another thing entirely to write something off without making an effort to understand the context surrounding it - that's willful ignorance.
Here's how I read Us (and yes, this lines up perfectly with what Peele said in the above interview): The film is about a black family that is striving for a rich white lifestyle. The husband, Gabe, is in a consumer arms race with his richer white friend, and even though he can't really compete, he's going to try his damndest. Participating in capitalism and consumerism has a very large cost, however, and this film focuses on the human cost. The dopplegangers are a way of demonstrating the unseen cost of every action we take in Western society - that's why their actions were tied to the people above. The privileged people above act and the people below pay for it in a way that's entirely out of their control. That's also why they were wearing prison jumpsuits - because prisoners are involved in manufacturing a lot of the crap we buy and get close to no compensation for it. The scissors were their way of literally cutting the ties with the people harming them and removing themselves from that system - it was symbolic for them taking back power. The film is presented from the perspective of one of the privileged people, demonstrating how the potential rise of the underclass is seen as a massive threat by the rich. The twist ending then reveals that the 'hero' of the film was actually from the underclass and was only able to escape her fate by putting an innocent person in her old position, which represents the way that it's impossible for anyone to rise in class without harming others. Every action taken by any character in the film caused a great deal of harm, seen or unseen. Essentially, 'there is no ethics under capitalism' - there are no heroes in this film since heroes can't possibly exist in this system. His use of a black family in this role criticizes the idea that black people should liberate themselves by getting money and becoming part of the rat race, rather than embracing a socialist ideology that would prevent their situation in America from occurring to begin with.
froghawk on 7/4/2019 at 05:07
Get out.
Sulphur on 7/4/2019 at 07:04
What we're saying is if you try to understand a movie's context, it brings a level of clarity that sharpens your viewpoint. It's not the kind of movie that tells a story about something broad and universal, but about something very specific in the here and the now. Your dismissal reads as someone who didn't understand that specificity, which isn't useful.
What froghawk - and by extension, me - is saying is that you're welcome to like or hate it on its own terms, which would be a more compelling viewpoint than simply writing it off because it didn't make sense to you.
froghawk on 7/4/2019 at 16:41
I thought better of trying to debate this further with you since you'd already told me to eat concrete - figured I was beating a dead horse. But I appreciate that you've given a thoughtful reply, and I'll admit that surprised me. I apologize if my humor was a bit mean-spirited and uncalled for in that instance.
I'll concede that the film's message probably isn't accessible to those without knowledge of the American political system. I actually greatly appreciated that it was a bit less on the nose than Get Out and required a bit more thought on the viewer's part, but I suppose that does mean its message will be lost on a lot of people who don't necessarily have that knowledge going in. On the other hand, some with that knowledge have accused the film of being too ham-fisted with its commentary and even pandering to the critics who praised Get Out's social point, so it's all a matter of perspective.
At this point, you're basically asking me to explain how the whole American economy works, which is a bit outside of the scope of this thread, as you've said, and would take a good long while. But essentially, the important part is that American capitalism can only exist with cheap labor - so while slavery may have been abolished, American corporations are still using prison labor, overseas labor, H-2B visas, and more to avoid properly compensating workers. As a result, most manufacturing jobs in America have disappeared. As for the government/corporate distinction, it's not very clear over here since the government is strongly influenced by corporate lobbyists. Prisons are also frequently privately owned and provide the state with quotas to meet so that they're sufficiently filled and profitable. If you want to get more up to speed on the public/private aspect of modern America, read up on neoliberalism.
The prison system is also intimately linked to policing here, and there's a documentary on that on Netflix called 'The 13th'. I haven't seen it yet and thus can't really vouch for it, but I know it goes into that issue in depth. There's another recent film called Sorry to Bother You which touches on the same themes in a much more direct way and is honestly a better film than Us and one of the best films I've ever seen, period. I highly recommend that everyone watch it, and I think it may also elucidate some of this for you.