Azaran on 21/10/2022 at 09:51
Quote Posted by Nicker
I also believe that, apart from it's psychological function of cushioning our egos from our inevitable mortality,
the doctrine of an afterlife is the most dangerous, damaging and toxic idea humans have ever invented. It has been the root justification for the greatest atrocities in our history and continues to poison civilization. The fear of being excluded from eternal reward or of being eternally punished, has warped and perverted even great minds. To claim that a magical being certainly exists, citing only supernatural events as evidence, is as stupid as it is untenable. To demand respect and titles, for espousing this utter failure of comprehension and honesty, is hubris defined. To claim that one knows the mind of such a being, is arrogant verging on vile. To harm others, based on these claims, is history repeating itself.
It should be noted that afterlife beliefs were not invented; (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near- death_experience) near death experiences are a very real thing (whether they're evidence of the afterlife, or simple brain chemistry). Now how certain religions embellish, codify, or reinterpret such experiences is a different story.
We should also beware of falling into the trap of placing 'religion' in general into one basket based on biases or the cultures we were raised in. Religion is a topic as vast and variegated as 'science'.
Consider a tantric buddhist meditating in a torchlit room, reciting millennia-old mantras, and having life-altering mystical experiences.
Then compare a fluorescent-lit Pentecostal 'church', where the service involves a hate-filled sermon by some guy in a suit, about how every other religion is bad and must be eradicated, the congregation should vote for X political party, gays and trans people are going to hell, &c. They're worlds apart, but yet both classified as 'religion' (though in my opinion the second is more like an anti-religion with religious window dressing)
Nicker on 21/10/2022 at 19:58
Quote:
It should be noted that afterlife beliefs were not invented;
Every abstract human belief is an invention. How well that invention models reality is key to its validity.
The example of Near Death Experiences is good because nobody actually dies having an NDE and yet proponents of the afterlife claim that NDE's are slam-dunk proof of the soul, (therefore god, therefore their god, therefore their particular flavour of their god...). But it's all wordplay. Raymond Moody popularised the term in 1975 in an act of unintentional question-begging and there's been no looking back. Now it is asserted that the soul exists because
word.Every religious experience, every "personal relationship with god" is brain chemistry, physiology and adaptation. And that's actually far more amazing than all the quaking inventions of humans combined.
Source_of_Truth on 21/10/2022 at 20:02
Used to be an Atheist, which means that I declared everyone's religion being false while I make the same mistake as the people I have classified as
everybody else, namely believing that I am right for some reason ;).
I have evolved into something between an agnostic and an athesit, in that a "believe" that I have no clue how the universe works but still hold the opinion that all the big institutional religions are based on delusions, misinterpretations, false data and most importantly tradition. Religion served an evolutionary purpose, offering explanations when we could not determine things and providing a common social structure (however flawed). We are way past that now.
TLDR, I am with (
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWz2foZ75tU) Picard on that topic.
Qooper on 21/10/2022 at 20:22
Quote Posted by Source_of_Truth
Used to be an Atheist, which means that I declared everyone's religion being false while I make the same mistake as the people I have classified as
everybody else, namely believing that I am right for some reason ;).
Isn't it rational to believe oneself to be right? If you believed yourself to be mistaken, wouldn't you examine where your mistake was and then change your beliefs to what you believed was true? No one believes in something they know to be false.
SD on 21/10/2022 at 22:40
Quote Posted by Source_of_Truth
Used to be an Atheist, which means that I declared everyone's religion being false while I make the same mistake as the people I have classified as
everybody else, namely believing that I am right for some reason ;).
I have evolved into something between an agnostic and an athesit, in that a "believe" that I have no clue how the universe works but still hold the opinion that all the big institutional religions are based on delusions, misinterpretations, false data and most importantly tradition. Religion served an evolutionary purpose, offering explanations when we could not determine things and providing a common social structure (however flawed). We are way past that now.
If you don't believe in a god or gods, you're still an atheist, however you want to cut it.
Nicker on 22/10/2022 at 05:20
Just to clarify my derogatory and possible oppressive opinion, a religion is different from a spiritual practice or a philosophy in that it asserts its authority based on supernatural claims.
Supernatural claims include any event which defies natural laws.
As a baseline - it should be noted that not a single supernatural claim has ever been credibly substantiated in human history.
mxleader on 22/10/2022 at 05:32
Quote Posted by Aemanyl
I derive a lot of inspiration from Hinduism and Buddhism, though I cannot say that I am a very religious or devotional person. Just like the original poster, I'm also interested in Gnostic Christianity.
I've been listening some Allen Watts Buddhism podcasts on Spotify lately. I'm not sold on any religion but it's interesting stuff.
Also, I'm making Thief pagan glyph wood slice Christmas ornaments this year for my pagan Yuletide tree.
heywood on 22/10/2022 at 13:24
Quote Posted by Nicker
As a baseline - it should be noted that not a single supernatural claim has ever been credibly substantiated in human history.
The big bang theory.
Many things that were once thought to be supernatural were explained later when new scientific theories came along and were confirmed. Some people's supernatural observations were rejected at the time because they didn't fit the model everyone was working with.
Nicker on 22/10/2022 at 14:37
Big Bang is not supernatural.
The existence of existence may be mysterious but that doesn't make it unlawful.
denkmal on 22/10/2022 at 15:16
Quote Posted by Nicker
Every religious experience, every "personal relationship with god" is brain chemistry, physiology and adaptation. And that's actually far more amazing than all the quaking inventions of humans combined.
It's interesting that people used to think of the brain as an electrical circuit and that mental illnesses/diseases were the result of faulty connections/wiring, so the answer was to pass an electrical current through it, with obvious consequences. Now we think of the brain as a biological computer and the cure for brain disorders might be to put a chip in there.
