Starker on 11/2/2021 at 22:46
I have mixed feelings about this game. I didn't hate it, but it did feel kind of like a bootleg Dark Souls, but the good kind that's basically close enough where it counts. It's as if I only like it because it's Anime Dark Souls.
EvaUnit02 on 12/2/2021 at 07:00
Played through Ryse: Son of Rome today. Holy hell, this game was cool as shit! It's a shame that they never made a sequel. A total surprise, definitely the worth $3-4 it typically goes on sale for IMO.
Combat is simple but really solid. I played on Centurion difficulty and you actually have to pay attention to visual tells for when you should dodge, counter, etc. It isn't mindless button mashing.
The hero Marius and his colleague Vitallion are total cool bros, extremely likeable. The is more or less a copy of the film Gladiator, but turned up to 11. You're in for a lot of over-the-top cinematic spectacle.
Tomi on 12/2/2021 at 07:50
Quote Posted by Starker
You'd think that a
proper stealth game would be primarily stealth focused -- that the goal is to get back to stealth as quickly as possible, not switch to a different type of gameplay. And if anything, I'd say these games are very underrepresented and that games where stealth is optional and you just switch to being a murdermachine when your cover is blown are much more typical. Dishonored, Metal Gear, Deus Ex, etc...
You have a good point there. A "proper" stealth game should definitely be stealth focused like you say, but does it need to be
all about stealth? Failure is a part of any game, and the failure of stealth results in... non-stealthy gameplay? As much as I love the stealth in the old Thief games for example, I honestly find the non-stealthy action quite terrible. I can't remember anyone ever saying how much they love the sword fights in it. Speaking of stealth being optional, I can't think of many games where it is not. Thief? Not really - going on a killing spree isn't hard at all, but it also isn't very much fun. In some games there's forced stealth of course where it's game over as soon as you're spotted, but that's the worst way to do it.
Wolfenstein 2 of course is an action game, and just in case I wasn't clear enough, I meant that its stealth is pretty good for its genre. You can go through the whole game in the murdermachine mode if you like, but the stealth brings some welcome change in it, and makes some of the tougher missions a bit easier. Also, it's not like all the guards in the whole level get alerted when you're caught, it's usually a fairly small (but logical) section only, and it's worth noting that you still don't
have to kill everyone (in Wolf 2 it's more fun though), the guards will just keep looking for you until they've found you - I wouldn't expect anything else if I was caught breaking into a top secret military base!
Quote Posted by WingedKagouti
And what do you think really should happen? And why would you expect your solution (if implemented in a "proper" stealth game) would not be the equivalent of either a game over/reload or "hide until the guards calm down" situation?
These are good questions, and I haven't thought about it enough to give you a more specific answer. What would I expect to happen when the player gets spotted though? The short answer is that I'd expect the resulting gameplay to be challenging and actually fun. In too many stealth games the logical solution is to find a "safe place" - maybe a roof that the guards can't reach, the darkest corner of a room, or perhaps a conveniently placed cupboard - and then just wait there and do nothing for a couple of minutes until the guards forget that you exist (or just reload because you can't be bothered waiting). Then they go back to their normal patrol routines, don't mind the bodies of their dead comrades lying on the way, and you're good to go until you get spotted again. I'm a patient kind of a guy, but I find the waiting game just boring and most of all immersion-breaking.
That was of course exaggerated a little, but only a little! (Well actually, not exaggerated at all in some games.) Again, when talking about stealth games, why would you automatically expect to hit reload or just go sit inside a cupboard until the guards to calm down when you're caught? What if getting caught wasn't such a disaster and it'd only bring a new challenge on the table, and you'd have to adapt your playing style to it. It wouldn't have to be the murdermachine mode from Wolfenstein, there are a hundred other ways to make it fun. That way the flow of the gameplay would be much more enjoyable.
Thirith on 12/2/2021 at 09:14
I think Dishonored does it quite well in that you don't have to default to combat if you're caught - you are highly mobile and it is fun to move around the environment. Escaping doesn't just mean running and hiding, it means navigating a place you've already explored, more or less. It's very rarely that I went on a murderous rampage when discovered.
Briareos H on 12/2/2021 at 09:50
I'm with Tomi, I think we now have engine and AI technology to see a game where stealth failure has a much more realistic impact. How amazing would it feel to see (simplified) agents taking clues on where the player is or has been, mounting a plan to protect high-value targets, calling all possible reinforcements, keeping constant communication, barricading themselves, etc. You don't need AAA graphics, just large and open levels and complex methods of progression (a voxel open-world could work great). On the other hand to be enjoyable, the player would need to be highly mobile and quite powerful.
Jason Moyer on 12/2/2021 at 10:35
I can't imagine a studio putting the resources required into those kinds of systems if a good player would never interact with them. I'm kind of amazed sometimes at how much optional/conflicting content studios like Arkane and Obsidian have managed to squeeze into their games as it is.
WingedKagouti on 12/2/2021 at 10:53
Quote Posted by Jason Moyer
I can't imagine a studio putting the resources required into those kinds of systems if a good player would never interact with them. I'm kind of amazed sometimes at how much optional/conflicting content studios like Arkane and Obsidian have managed to squeeze into their games as it is.
It would basically have to be an indie passion project to ever see the light of day.
henke on 12/2/2021 at 15:48
I didn't especially like the way Wolf:TNO and its sequels handled stealth. IIRC all the guards knew exactly where you are once you've been discovered, even if you break line of sight with them? A lot of stealth-action games do that better (like the Far Crys and TLOU1/2) where guards will keep investigating your last known position, so you can sneak around them and keep playing it as a stealth game by taking them out silently while they're still in high-alert.
I've been playing a buncha stuff:
Golf Story (replay) - For the past week I've been wrapping up work around 3-4 in the afternoon and then sitting down with this for an hour before dinner, and I don't know what it is about it, but playing this gives me such a sense of well-being. :) The gameplay is chill, and the characters are funny. It is such a feelgood game, and probably my favourite Switch game.
Ring Fit Adventure - I'm on day 25 now. It's fun, and I certainly do work up a sweat every time, tho I've yet to see any noticable changes in my physique. I am not a stunning Adonis yet.
Fugue In Void - artsy fartsy walking sim. 45min long, has some nice visuals, but really self-indulgent. The game often locks you in place and forces you to appreciate its visuals before allowing you to move on.
Lorn's Lure - First person platformer with some fun climbing mechanics. Seriously hardcore, feels like first person Celeste at times. The (
https://rubeki.itch.io/lorns-lure) current version of the game is free on itch, so if you got a hankerin for some platforming/exploration, check it out!
The Medium - I played a bunch of this but now I got stuck on a semi-tricky part with awful checkpointing so I think I'm done. Story ain't interesting enough for me to keep putting myself through this. Like Bloober Team's ealier games Observer and Blair Witch, the real star of this is the environment. Looks great, and exploring the spooky ol' worker's resort was pretty fun.
henke on 14/2/2021 at 10:33
Oh yeah, I've also been playing the latest PS+ freebie, Concrete Genie!
[video=youtube;zgK9rUmaZyQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgK9rUmaZyQ[/video]
At first it felt like all the painting was gonna be a bit tiresome, but I got into the rhythm of it quite fast. I think I'm getting close to the end? It is quite charming.
Thirith on 15/2/2021 at 07:49
I'm probably about an hour away from finishing
Fallen Order, a game I enjoyed a fair bit - though I don't think I'll go back and find all the collectibles. (It's a rare game that makes me want to do this, in particular if there are mainly aesthetic rewards only.)
In any case, I'm looking forward to playing a few shorter games... but afterwards, I'm thinking it may finally be time to check out
Tyranny, after I recently watched (
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaqqCbmhqVI) a video essay on the game. I don't think I'd be up for one of those endless RPGs, but a shorter, more focused, thematically more interesting RPG sounds like just the thing.