henke on 5/7/2024 at 16:44
Ok, finished Still Wakes The Deep.
First off, love the Scottish accents. More games should just get really specific with their place in time and history like this.
It is indeed linear as heck. A survival horror where you're more free to explore the rig and have more agency in finding your way around would've been cool BUT I also realize that doing it like this leads to a tighter, shorter, more well-paced experience. They still could've opened it up a lil bit, but whatever.
I have a bone to pick with the controls. Too much David Cage bullshit with all the Hold Trigger and Pull Down to crank levers and whatnot. Also on gamepad Drop Item and Toggle Crouch are the same button! So if you're holding an item you gotta drop it, crouch, then pick it back up! What the heck. If they were short on gamepad buttons they could've gotten rid of the lean buttons which are pretty much useless anyway and I mostly forgot they were there.
Despite some really cool monster designs it wasn't very scary. Maybe that's because I played on XBox and this should really be experienced up close and personal on a PC monitor with headphones. Or maybe because I've played so many of these Amensia-likes that they don't rattle me anymore. Or maybe I'm just too dang brave to get scared by the spooky game! :erg: Also, glad to never hear any mention of Cthulhu. A lot of games recently have gone with that trope and I'm all Cthulhu'd out.
Overall tho? I liked it. It looks and sounds great. Mostly plays well, and there's some nice character moments. This is probably my favourite Chinese Room game, tho that's not saying much. I liked Dear Esther and Machine for Pigs well enough, but never made it far in Everybody's Gone.
Thirith on 7/7/2024 at 14:46
I just finished Still Wakes the Deep, and while I definitely enjoyed the atmosphere and the cultural and historical specificity, on the whole I disliked it... but if my mentioning it in the thread got henke to play it, I'm glad that he enjoyed it. :) My main problem with it is the extent to which it is on-rails being at odds with the story it's telling and what it's trying to do with that story. What gameplay is there feels like cumbersome, you're-playing-a-game versions of what is little more than a button to play the next part of the story. None of The Chinese Room's earlier games were particularly gamey, but they didn't pretend to be: they had you exploring places to learn about things that had happened in the past. This one puts you in a situation that's happening right now, but the way it lets you handle this situation is really little more interactive than Dragon's Lair or Space Ace. To me, it felt entirely like a ride, so much so that I don't think I would've got any less out of watching a Let's Play. And my threshold for how much interactivity I require in a game is pretty low.
But yes, the artistry that's gone into evoking this place, time and situation is great. If you know what you're letting yourself in for, and if you're okay with Still Wakes the Deep being what it is, it does what it does beautifully.
Aja on 7/7/2024 at 14:53
Clearly they need to just port it to VR. Problem solved!
Thirith on 8/7/2024 at 06:57
I think this one would work less well in VR than, say, Dear Esther or Everybody's Gone to the Rapture. There are too many times when the game takes (camera) control from the player, which wouldn't be very comfortable, plus Unreal Engine 5 takes a monster of a machine. Make the game less graphically intense and you'll lose a lot of what it does well.
Aja on 9/7/2024 at 17:11
I just mean it would alleviate the problem of interactivity. I'd be a lot more willing to put up with a lack of agency if I had the immersion of exploring the space at scale and in 3D. As for flailing cameras, Resident Evil 8 did this quite a bit, and while it wasn't ideal, it was surprisingly not as bothersome as you'd expect. I guess people's sensitivities would vary on that.
Thirith on 10/7/2024 at 06:46
The game offers little to no exploration, other than at the very beginning, where you can check out a couple of crew cabins. After that it is extremely on-rails, with the main character being stuck in narrow corridors. I'm usually someone who thinks, "I'd love to experience this in VR!", but I felt that much less with this game than with any of The Chinese Room's earlier games.
Then there's the other element that the plot is structured in a way that doesn't allow you to stop and smell the roses, so to speak. It's always, "You must do this, and do it five minutes ago, or we're all gonna die!" For me, at least, it's in no small part the downtime that makes many VR games and experiences work best. Take Half-Life: Alyx, for instance: there's certainly frenetic action, but it punctuates the many moments where you're simply allowed to exist and explore spaces in City 17.
Not trying to invalidate your own wish to see the game in VR, but I do think that many of the design decisions they took in making Still Wakes the Deep would reduce its appeal in VR.
Thirith on 11/7/2024 at 11:35
I'm almost done with "Life of the Party" in my Thief 2 replay, and I still like the mission a lot. It's the demo that later turned into this level that got me into Thief, even though I bounced off it the first couple of times I tried to play it.
However, as much as I like it, it's definitely limited by what the engine and PCs at the time could do. There's a lifelessness to the level that's due mostly if not entirely to these limitations, and in that respect it makes for a fascinating comparison to what The Black Parade does. The latter uses the Thief engine and aesthetic (though with certain upgrades), but it doesn't feel limited by it: it's a design choice. In 2024, I can't help but wonder what a version of this would look like that isn't as limited by the tech.
henke on 11/7/2024 at 13:51
Yeah that demo was also my introduction to the games, loved the hell out of it and that mission. It's been ages since I played T2 tho, and I do wonder if it would be underwhelming compared to what the more recent FMs have been doing. :erg:
Thirith on 11/7/2024 at 13:54
I have to admit that I'm finding Thief 2 more dated than I would've expected, especially compared to The Black Parade. It's still very enjoyable, but there's a sparseness that was okay at the time but that isn't altogether fitting to what the environments are supposed to be - though that's more of an issue in a level like "Life of the Party" than for instance in "Framed" (the police station) or "Blackmail" (Truart's mansion, post-party).
Sulphur on 12/7/2024 at 10:30
The Black Parade is an FM that builds upon decades of know-how within the community, and it takes advantage of NewDark which eases up the restrictions the original engine had. I would be surprised if it didn't feel like it wasn't limited by the engine.
I'm sort of nonplussed by the comparison, really. Thief 2 (to say nothing of TG) wasn't a looker even when it was released, and while Life of the Party was one of my favourite levels, I felt even back then that there was more that could have been done; but that was besides the fact that it was a well-constructed and enjoyable piece of level design, which won out over my misgivings on its environment density or graphical paucity. If we're comparing anything, IMO, a fairer tack should be how the design fundamentals of both stand up.