WE HAVE LIFTOFF!!! - T-plus 38 minutes and counting. - by oudeis
Dia on 21/1/2009 at 01:12
Quote Posted by dethtoll
I've changed my opinion of him a lot since November.
:cheeky:
ercles on 21/1/2009 at 01:20
If Obama can win over ttlg hardasses, what can't he do?
Ghostly Apparition on 21/1/2009 at 01:24
Loved the inauguration and a nice speech that seemed to hit all the right notes. I'm cautiously optimistic.
As to why its wrong to say government doesn't work. This seems to be
the common mantra from a lot of the conservatives. Government doesn't work.
The problem is they then get elected and set out to prove it. W. being the most glaring example. Just because a Republican can't get government to work right doesn't mean that no one can. Its worked in the past and it can again.
The best way to ensure the better odds govt. will work? stop electing the ones
who say it can't work. This is common sense, it shouldn't have to be explained.
demagogue on 21/1/2009 at 01:50
If I have a mantra about life and politics, it's "bottom-up>top-down".
It's the defining feature of non-occult agency in the universe.
Anybody that spits out any grand generalization and assures us the details will follow because they're "supposed to", isn't talking about what's actually going on but a perception of it, which isn't just biased by perspective but is too often even constructed by it.
OTOH, anybody that first goes straight to the important considerations on the ground (the gold nuggets on the surface, not getting distracted by the dust 10 feet down) and explains how they come together to paint a big picture, and understands how affecting details affects its direction, that's an opinion that's going to carry a lot of credibility with me.
Fortunately Obama very often takes that second perspective, and takes it to heart. That about captures what I most appreciate about him. It's not actually such a special thing; there just seems to be such a drought of it among the political establishments.
Thief13x on 21/1/2009 at 02:00
Quote Posted by Ghostly Apparition
The best way to ensure the better odds govt. will work? stop electing the ones
who say it can't work. This is common sense, it shouldn't have to be explained.
Who said government won't work? The true Reagan republicans say
too much government won't work. Want proof? try telling me where the first half of the $700B went.
While inspiring for alot of people, I personally felt like Obama's speech was pretty vauge. He definately drove home the point that people need to be willing to work hard and make sacrafices. The nagging question in my mind is work hard, and sacrafice what? our tax dollars or our inflated standard of living? two VERY different approaches. Unfortunately all I've seen is an irresponsible use of our money and Obama's said jack shit about it
june gloom on 21/1/2009 at 02:00
Quote Posted by Ghostly Apparition
Loved the inauguration and a nice speech that seemed to hit all the right notes. I'm cautiously optimistic.
As to why its wrong to say government doesn't work. This seems to be
the common mantra from a lot of the conservatives. Government doesn't work.
The problem is they then get elected and set out to prove it.
Very astute and very true- which is funny considering the first guy who made that exact observation was conservative commentator P.J. O'Rourke.
Government
can work. The problem is it's just too big and unweildy and rife with corruption. All those corruption scandals? Those're just the guys dumb enough to get caught.
I think my views are best summed up by a rather profound line in Deus Ex, Paul Denton saying that average people never benefit from government or business on a scale they can't even comprehend.
Ghostly Apparition on 21/1/2009 at 03:43
Quote Posted by Thief13x
Who said government won't work? The true Reagan republicans say
too much government won't work. Want proof? try telling me where the first half of the $700B went.
While inspiring for alot of people, I personally felt like Obama's speech was pretty vauge. He definately drove home the point that people need to be willing to work hard and make sacrafices. The nagging question in my mind is work hard, and sacrafice what? our tax dollars or our inflated standard of living? two VERY different approaches. Unfortunately all I've seen is an irresponsible use of our money and Obama's said jack shit about it
Ok, I see I have to put this as simply as I can. You say the Reagan Republicans say TOO MUCH govt won't work, and as proof you point to the fact that no one knows What Bush and his Treasury secretary did with our money. You Realize Bush is a Republican right? You realize Obama had nothing to do with that right?
Proving that Republicans say too much govt won't work and pointing to an example that shows the republicans screwed it up is ... I'm at a loss for words .... ok that is assinine
Thief13x, maybe you should try thinking through you rebuttals better.
Think before posting? hey its a thought.
Jason Moyer on 21/1/2009 at 03:56
Using Bush as an example of conservatism is kind of silly, unless there are conservative ideals that he secretly adhered to somewhere. Bill Clinton was more conservative than Bush was, and Obama's ideologies are pretty similar to Clinton's.
Printer's Devil on 21/1/2009 at 04:11
Quote Posted by dethtoll
I think my views are best summed up by a rather profound line in Deus Ex, Paul Denton saying that average people never benefit from government or business on a scale they can't even comprehend.
Seriously?
Scots Taffer on 21/1/2009 at 04:13
I live in cyberspace. You can't judge me.
