Oneiroscope on 25/2/2005 at 02:54
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
That can already be fixed in the tweaks.
Doh! That's what I get for not trying them out, I guess. :o
epithumia on 25/2/2005 at 03:01
Quote Posted by Dafydd
2. It gave designers a great way for Garrett to sneak into a place. Can't get through the doors? Swim under a river and find a crack. Think Calendra's Legacy.
Think Lord Bafford's Manner. You've just started Thief and you're standing on that street with the wind howling and the guards talking about the bear pits. You wander the streets, perhaps crawl through the sewers a bit. And then you're at the wellhouse, and you jump....
Perhaps the most impressive ten minutes of gaming I've ever experienced. Just wouldn't have been the same without that jump and swim.
But like I said, give it time. I suspect the real problem wasn't making water that the player could enter and swim around in. Instead I suspect the issue was making objects react properly when they hit the surface. Some things float around, bobbing on the surface, etc.
Eshaktaar on 25/2/2005 at 03:11
There's this Havok engine demo that can be downloaded freely, which features water. Even in the demo, the water's physical implementation seems to be wonky, because when you drop something swimmable (e.g. the rubber duck) into the water, it bounces up and down indefinitely.
Probably hasn't much to do with the problems that were encountered during T3's development, though.
deadman on 25/2/2005 at 05:19
Quote Posted by Eshaktaar
There's this Havok engine demo that can be downloaded freely, which features water. Even in the demo, the water's physical implementation seems to be wonky, because when you drop something swimmable (e.g. the rubber duck) into the water, it bounces up and down indefinitely.
And I say they should've hobnobbed with the development team at Valve HQ when they were implementing Havok into Half-Life 2 :joke:.
They most-certainly got water to work (with damn impressive reflections, too) so is there hope of Havok and water mixing in Flesh?
deadman on 25/2/2005 at 05:33
Quote Posted by Darkwarrior_II
Who gives a shit about water and rope arrows? They didn't make the original Thief games great, just as their absence doesn't make Thief III poor.
I could say the same thing about the briefings before every FM. Some might not care in the least that Thief 3 deviates from this and only has a few RustMonkey (i.e., Thief 1/2-esque) briefings, yet I would argue that the lack of them has diminished the experience for me. Much like water and rope arrows. Who gives a shit about them? Many, most of us. As Bukary took the high road in saying, let's not quarrel in this; those of us who care for it, will work toward implementing and trying to grasp our heads around this quandary. Those who, on the other hand, care less, can focus on other elements, like getting right to building FMs.
Supergreg on 25/2/2005 at 06:22
Quote Posted by Krypt
we had a LOT of problems with implementing the Havok physics in our engine. There were a lot of things we just couldn't get working to our satisfaction and still keep up with our development schedule, and water was one of the big ones. We cut water because of the amount of development time it would have required for the physics programming and all of the art effects and extra animations and such.
Can't the Havok physics be replaced, then, with the good ol' Unreal physics engine, and then tweaked to resemble whatever physics settings the modder deem appropriate? After all, the Havok physics doesn't really add much to the gameplay. Fair enough, it's nice that you have to move carefully to avoid toppling over barrells and shit like that, but it's really quite insignificant compared to water and rope arrows.
User was banned by Digital Nightfall on 30-11-2007godismygoldfish on 25/2/2005 at 06:27
Not unless T3ed somehow grants you access to the entire physics engine for you to mess with. While i haven't messed with it yet, i really don't think it has that capability.
Brodieman on 25/2/2005 at 06:36
The engine has Havok incorporated you can't jsut chop and change it with another.
No swimable water - well we need to design levels that are even more cunning without resorting to swim through sewer ducts to break in.
Rope arrows - never really used them myself unless they were necessary for the mission. Don't miss them at all, though they are cool.
A new editor and people just want to reimplement old things rather than get creative and find new ways? Imagine what we can attempt with climbing gloves now.
Twist on 25/2/2005 at 07:30
Quote Posted by Brodieman
A new editor and people just want to reimplement old things rather than get creative and find new ways?
Amen, brother. :)
I can't believe how many times this thread made me roll my eyes. :rolleyes:
(And I really can't imagine how this lighting engine would work underwater. But it's irrelevant so I'm not gonna worry about it.)
I want to thank Krypt for posting so honestly. I hope some of the responses don't put you off and keep you from posting in the future.
Garrettwannabe on 25/2/2005 at 08:09
Quote:
Originally posted by Twist
I want to thank Krypt for posting so honestly. I hope some of the responses don't put you off and keep you from posting in the future.
Double Amen to that sir - we all (myself included) need to remember that Null and Krypt are in here
just out of the goodness of their hearts to help us and have been so forthcoming with tutorials and answering questions on T3ED and ect - IMO, above and beyond what we would have expected them to do so.
For a good example, skate on over to the new large post our friend Krypt wrote for us on something called "Navmesh"? and setting ai patrols in them....wonder who picked a name like "Navmesh" for that one anyway? :wot:
Thanks muchas to ya Kyrpt for being so helpful...
edit: DOH! I just realized I had a Homer Simpson moment there - hey, just maybe it stands for "Navigate + Mesh"..... :tsktsk:
