Scots Taffer on 21/10/2008 at 03:14
Might want to spoiler that first line or so, Thirith. I'm doing so to maintain secrecy regarding the adaption in general, even for those who know the story.
Fafhrd on 21/10/2008 at 06:18
There are almost entirely unsubstantiated rumours that Snyder also shot an ending much truer to the book, that will be on the super-huge everything edited together DVD edition. They're in all likelihood false, not least because it would require quite a few alternate scenes throughout the film to lay the proper groundwork. My only concern with the reported ending is: BIG FAT SPOILERS. SRSLY. DON'T HIGHLIGHT IF YOU HAVEN'T READ THE BOOK. LAST WARNING: There's a very strong hint that the long term public perception of the attack will be that it was a one in a billion accident, with no malicious intent or even guiding intelligence. That hint, plus Manhattan's brief covnersation with Veidt, and the final scene in the office of the New Frontiersman, are key to establishing the ultimate futility of Veidt's plan.
If Veidt is actually framing Manhattan, then there's no point where the public can say 'This was a freak accident, and will in all likelihood never happen again,' and the established peace will be maintained by an imagined ever present possibility of further violence on Manhattan's part.
Some other reports have implied that an actual frame-up of Doc Manhattan, isn't part of the plan, and it's more that a bunch of generators that Veidt built based on Doc Manhattan's powers (more like the spark hydrants in the book) are rigged to explode by Veidt without Manhattan's knowledge, which would retain the initial "Are we being attacked?" public reaction that stops the war dead in its tracks, and leave room for the "just an accident" rationalisation by the media in the hours after it happens.
Scots Taffer on 21/10/2008 at 06:26
The other spoiler was potentially that the scene at the New Frontiersman isn't there at all.
Muzman on 21/10/2008 at 06:44
If they make it look like it was Doc M. and unite the world against him and he leaves, where's the omnipresent abstract threat go then? There'd be nothing to unite against anymore and we'd be back to square one.
I suppose arguably fear of giant squid that never show up could wear off after a while as well. They'd have to orchestrate fear of Doc M. threatening to return all the time somehow.
I say this as someone who thought the squid plan came out of nowhere, employing technology and things I would not have thought possible in that world. It just means it could have been established better. A panel or two of ugly paintings on an island wasn't enough.
Scots Taffer on 21/10/2008 at 06:55
Exactly, Muz. Theoretically the "threat" of aliens will wear off over a longer period than an attack from Manhatten because it's such a shock to the system to be attacked by the completely unknown and terrifying, but without knowing whether or not they've tailored the story that Manhattan is essentially the Earth's main good guy then turning bad might have a similar effect... hard to say. And this could all be a big ruse! I agree with you on how it was done in the comic though, pretty poorly handled.
doctorfrog on 21/10/2008 at 08:53
@Scots: I'm no authority on this, or anything comic bookish, but if Watchmen is a deconstruction, or other parallel to superhero comics, the SPACE SQUID makes sense as a bizarre Evil PlanTM. It's more inventive than necessary, a hell of a lot more work for the evil genius to pull off than framing Doc M, on shaky ground when examined by the reader, and just way, way over the top. If you examine the comic book plots of typical hokey supervillains, they make about as much sense, and would likely collapse in on themselves rather than work for the supervillain's long-term plans. That's what the comic is exploring.
Let's say the Joker poison's Gotham's water supply, kills half the inhabitants. He pulls it off, Batman, screws up. What next? Is this going to get him money somehow? What if Goldfinger steals all the gold in Fort Knox? Will it really throw the economy into chaos, where he can step in and make skrillions? Or will the invisible hand right itself? Supervillain schemes are usually pretty ridiculous, aren't they?
There's a symmetry that builds up in the comic: Veidt is a superhero (see how he catches the bullet?) and a supervillain (willing to cut up as many as it takes to achieve the ends he sees as worthy) rolled up in one. He's replacing the loved/hated savior/demon of Doc M, having beaten him by locking him firmly in a trap of causality.
Taking away the goofy, but horrifying giant squid attack removes the excessive comic book villainy from the picture, a strong symbolic side of that symmetry. This isn't a bad thing for the movie, there's a reason why Wolverine wore jeans in the X-Men movies: his trademark outfit looks stupid on the screen. Space squids will ellicit too much huh? from the audience. Made-up boogeymen that the world can unite around temporarily and hate? Yeah, we can relate to that.
So it's a good step to take for the movie, but I don't think the space squid is a senseless thing in the comic. It's the villain's crazy-ass plan, actually implemented, and it's terrible, and all-too-easily undercut. Even dead, Roarschach drives a truck through it.
Finally, having only a temporary peace is fitting in any case. Alexander the Great, after he cleaved the Gordian Knot, didn't live too long, and his empire divided. If the movie stays true to this, it doesn't matter as much how Veidt pulls of his plan, as long as it creates a lot of horror along the way.
Muzman on 21/10/2008 at 09:29
While I agree with most of that there is a good case to be made for it. I suspect it's part of the deconstruction, as it were, that only such a scale of villany can possibly unite the whole world. This is a place where Nixon is still president in '86, Woodward and Bernstien disappeared and a big blue guy who can do anything is the nuclear deterrent.
It's just a matter of, when the squid turns up, it hadn't seemed like that sort of book up until then and then it's "oh that's right it's a superhero comic".
I don't know what the Doc M plot entails obviously but a bit of introduction could have pulled it off, I think. Conspiracy theorists talking about aliens, a bit more about genetic technology and teleportation here and there. What's really supposed to sell it is the death involved from something external and previously unknown, not so much the squid.
It sounds like they're turning Doc M into a cosmic Osama Bin Laden, which is weird because the squid is actually a perfect 9/11 scenario already when you consider what that did to the collective psyche.
It seems like one of those changes that thinks it gets it but actually doesn't. Regardless, we'll see how it goes. The squid is definitely a hard sell and not handled as well as I'd have liked in the book.
DDL on 21/10/2008 at 10:36
Doctorfrog, just to clarify an entirely minor point (pendantry ahoy!), and with spoiler tags for...actually no good reason, Goldfinger wasn't stealing the gold in fort knox, he was going to nuke it to make it essentially useless -scattered over hundreds of miles, and radioactively contaminated: the idea being that the gold he ALREADY owned would then by far far more valuable, like smashing one of a pair of ming vases to make the survivor worth more. Ok, still a really stupid plan, but hey.
doctorfrog on 21/10/2008 at 18:52
Whoops.
Fafhrd on 21/10/2008 at 20:42
Quote Posted by Scots Taffer
The other spoiler was potentially
that the scene at the New Frontiersman isn't there at all.That one's been debunked, actually.
