vurt on 10/10/2012 at 04:35
Um, I've never said i know how the trees would look if the game was made today. It was kind of my point; no one can know so it's really useless to even have the discussion. I only criticized the vagueness of the so called "constructive" critisicm. But it's been getting better now and i do agree with Larry about the rock.
For a "hardcore" player, many times a texture pack will ruin that nostalgic feeling. Those players have seen the same textures and models for years, anything that is even slightly modified will look off and maybe "wrong", there has never been a texture pack made for a game that has gotten away with that (maybe with the exception of ZylonBane's SHTUP for SS2).
Everything is not going to match the original feel in this mod, it's not gonna be a SHTUP for Thief2, so just move on if that's what you're looking for. New players (or non-hardcore players, such as myself) who aren't "ruined" by the nostalgia might be a bit more forgiving. I'm looking forward to Gecko's texture pack personally, but yes i know many of the hardcore players have reacted like with this mod. I think they should just realize that they need to stick with the original textures and stop bitching. At least until someone like ZB comes around and makes a 99% true-to-the-origins texture pack ;)
blaydes99 on 10/10/2012 at 05:14
Yes, you guys claiming "constructive criticism" yet not offering nothing constructive at all with your comments isn't going to work. Saying, "No, bad!, doesn't match" and folding your arms does not construct or achieve anything.
Doing what Larry did and explaining a well thought-out point about a boulder and providing sample screenshots is what helped sway vurt's decision. Don't expect vurt to change anything unless you make a case why and provide actual data/images to support your point.
I love the new glowing mushroom model BTW.
LarryG on 10/10/2012 at 05:39
Personally, I'm less concerned with having exact hi-res replacement textures than I am about having the replacement textures fit with the artistic style of the game. If you only replaced that one texture, would it stick out like a sore thumb? If so, it may be beautiful on its own right, but it doesn't fit. Same with object replacements. If you replaced that one object & left the rest of the mission alone, would it look good or does it need everything else to change for it to fit in. If the latter, then it's not appropriate.
I like a lot of your objects and textures and wouldn't hesitate to use them in a mission of mine where they fit. But I wouldn't want them used in OMs if they don't look right there, if they changed the feel of the missions.
I believe that it's harder to do object and texture replacement packs than it is to do a whole new mission. With a whole new mission, the artistic interpretation is all yours. Some people will always criticize your vision, but it is your vision and if you realized it then that's that. But with replacement packs, you should stick to the feel of the original. Here the goal is not about you and your vision, but about extending the original vision using the improved tools and techniques. Ideally, things should just look "better" without people really noticing why. As soon as they notice, you've failed.
Consider that you have taken on the task to restore a Rembrandt. Maybe there are sections of the canvas that were destroyed and you have to reconstruct what should be painted in those areas. You don't go about the restoration with an abstract technique and acrylic paints. That would not be true to the original. Instead you study Rembrandt's brush work and lots of his other paintings. Are there any with similar themes? How did he solve the problems of those paintings? Then you build up, layer by layer, the best interpretation that you can make of what he would have put on those destroyed sections using as close to his techniques and brushwork as you can. Sure Thief is no old master's work. And the artists behind it are no Rembrandts. And an oil painting is not a video game. But you get my point. Thief is a classic game. It has a look and feel all its own. And if you are going to replace the carpets and draperies, you should do so in a way that is sensitive to its nature, that maintains its artistic integrity.
So if I seem vague, maybe it's because you haven't studied the game as it is enough to understand it before you started making your changes. Maybe you need to play the missions more and pay attention to how it all works together to produce an emotional response. Then you will realize what I mean.
Or maybe I really am being vague. I don't know. It seems that those who are also most familiar with the game understand where I am coming from. But to someone less familiar, maybe so. Sometimes one doesn't have concrete words to express abstract feelings, at least I don't. Some things have to be experienced to be understood.
vurt on 10/10/2012 at 11:35
Usually texture packs doesnt replace every single texture so there's always those places that sticks out like sore thumb, a 128x182 texture next to a 1024x1024 texture is never going to look good, it's just something you accept when running texture packs. And yes it's a lot harder to create a texture pack for the OM's, ofcourse. But I guess most comes down to how open minded the player is. The long-time hardcore fans are obviously almost impossible to satisfy, change the hue slighltly of 1 texture and you've ruined the whole atmosphere of the game :cheeky: It will get better though, from experience of years of modding different games i know i usually end up closer to the original feel than how it looked in the begining where i usually tend to drift off a bit.
vurt on 10/10/2012 at 11:38
Quote Posted by blaydes99
Yes, you guys claiming "constructive criticism" yet not offering nothing constructive at all with your comments isn't going to work. Saying, "No, bad!, doesn't match" and folding your arms does not construct or achieve anything.
Doing what Larry did and explaining a well thought-out point about a boulder and providing sample screenshots is what helped sway vurt's decision.
Exactly :)
Edit: does anyone know the console command for dropping (/spawning) objects? I used it for SS2 when i sometimes couldnt find an object in-game or didnt have time to play to get to a specific place to see the new model. Cant remember the exact command.
ZylonBane on 11/10/2012 at 03:59
"summon_obj"
But I don't think it works in the Thief games. It's a DromEd command that was only left exposed in SS2 as a cheap hack to make it possible to spawn navigation markers.
vurt on 11/10/2012 at 14:34
First post has some added images.
@zb: yeah it doesnt seem to work :/ well, i'll just use dromed..
voodoo47 on 11/10/2012 at 19:15
this is the second time vurt made something that made made me think "mmm, I want to cook and eat that".
