SD on 16/4/2007 at 20:59
I'm genuinely glad you're okay Tiamat and I really hope your friends are okay too. I can assure you none of my remarks in this thread were intended to be flippant. However there are wider issues that demand to be addressed here. It seems the authorities really dropped the ball on this one by not responding appropriately after the first wave of shootings. It may seem cold, and I apologise for that, but I'd rather talk about the issues than get involved in the whole remote mourning for people I don't know thing. I'm watching the news conference right now where the journalists are questioning the powers that be and I can hardly believe how clueless everyone is. Someone has fucked up good and proper here.
fett on 16/4/2007 at 21:00
I think it's just disconcerting to know that the police and campus security were already investigating the first shooting, but neglected to evacuate the campus, knowing that the shooter had not yet been apprehended. Maybe I'm just ignorant of police procedure in such a situation but it seems like a no-brainer. I'm not saying this to point fingers, but it's just confusing to me. :confused: :(
My impression from CNN of the school president and police chief is that they're responding to questions about this by explaining how many counseling centers they've set up for the families. Is that odd to anyone else?
Tiamat on 16/4/2007 at 21:03
Quote Posted by fett
I think it's just disconcerting to know that the police and campus security were already investigating the first shooting, but neglected to evacuate the campus, knowing that the shooter had not yet been apprehended. Maybe I'm just ignorant of police procedure in such a situation but it seems like a no-brainer. I'm not saying this to point fingers, but it's just confusing to me. :confused: :(
You don't know the campus very well :nono:
When Morva was on the loose classes weren't cancelled until several false alarms were raised. Classes weren't cancelled after the first shooting today, either.
And on this note, I agree with Stronts: Someone has fucked up good and proper, here.
Thats not to say I don't understand why they didn't evacuate the whole campus: It's cold outside, and there's nowhere outside of campus to house 26000 people for even the small amount of time they need to search for the shooter. Not to mention the sheer numbers would make it nigh impossible to stop him from slipping through with the students.
*Zaccheus* on 16/4/2007 at 21:12
My understanding was that the police were looking for the suspect and the campus had gone into lock-down. If they had evacuated the whole area, would that not have risked either letting the shooter get away and return later, or alternatively could have forced the hand of the shooter to start shooting again? All they knew at the time was that there had been a shooting.
The Alchemist on 16/4/2007 at 21:16
Yeah an evacuation of the entire campus would have made it easier for the guy to get away or go on a rampage mowing people down probably. A lockdown makes sense but they didn't seem to do that either. There should have been officers at every building and people should have been well aware of what was going on so that they could take the right precautions.
Two hours seems like plenty of time to get a few officers patrolling each of the campus buildings asking questions.
Stitch on 16/4/2007 at 21:20
Quote Posted by Strontium Dog
It may seem cold, and I apologise for that, but I'd rather talk about the issues than get involved in the whole remote mourning for people I don't know thing.
Discussing the issue is fine when you possess a shred of tact. I'm going to (almost) ignore the second half of the above sentence in the interest of not turning this thread into yet another one about
you.
Quote Posted by Tiamat
So. I can safely say today was totally fucking terrifying.
Christ, Tiamat, I'm glad you're okay. A VA Tech student on another forum I visit was posting as the events unfolded and things began to spiral out of control, and it was horrifying.
Also: Evacuation? Yeah, a madman is running around killing people LET'S GET EVERYONE OUT IN THE OPEN
Gestalt on 16/4/2007 at 21:27
Would an evacuation be a good idea in this sort of situation? It would mean forcing everyone out into the open where they might be targeted.
The first thing that came to mind for me was the École Polytechnique massacre in Montreal.
I don't really know what to say here.
BlackErtai on 16/4/2007 at 21:28
I just found out a friend of mine at Tech is alright, but I've got to agree with Stitch on this one. This just seems like one of those situations where really, no matter how well you plan it won't work out. I mean, where would you tell people to go? I can't even imagine if they tried to evacuate the campus here at UGA if something like this occurred. Where would they send people? I mean, you don't want to make people stay in the buildings where this is taking place, but at the same time, you don't want 1,000's of people out in the open where a semi-automatic wielding idiot can just mow people down, either. This seems to be a catch-22 for administration officials as to how to deal with it.
But then, in almost any case, I don't think you would expect a two-goddamn-hour-break between shootings by the same fucker. So maybe they should have done something about warning people in that two-hour break. Maybe.
*Edit* Seriously then, wtf. I just was reading a yahoo AP article, and I run across this line: "He said that before the e-mail went out, the university began telephoning resident advisers in the dorms to notify them and sent people to knock on doors to spread the word."
Does that strike anyone else as amazingly retarded? I mean, what the hell were they thinking there? "Jesus, we've got to let everyone know about this shooter who's going around killing people. I know, let's send people to each dorm to walk the halls and knock on doors and tell people." Jesus.
Dia on 16/4/2007 at 21:53
I'm just totally incredulous about the way the school officials didn't handle the situation! The moment they found out about the shooting in the dorm, even if it was a 'domestic dispute' as they first believed, the fact that the gunman was still running around with a weapon should have caused them to issue an immediate lockdown of the entire campus.
Out here in the midwest that means that the doors/windows to all buildings on the campus are immediately locked, students are immediately told to crouch under their desks, and no one is allowed to leave or enter any of those buildings. We had an example of that at one of our local schools when an escaped & armed convict was allegedly sighted near one of our elementary schools. In fact, every school within a 10 mile radius went into an immediate lockdown and stayed that way until it was determined that the guy was nowhere near any of the schools. If the VA Tech officials had done that then there's a strong chance that the gunman would never have been able to gain access to the engineering class in the first place - especially if a period of two hours elapsed between shootings. It might also have given the cops a chance to run this guy down & catch him.
I know hindsight is 20/20, but for cryin' out loud! WTF were those officials thinking? Just the fact that the guy was still on the loose should have prompted them to immediately move to protect their students and faculty.
Yes; I agree that somebody definitely dropped the ball big time here.
Why is it that shit like this has to happen before somebody starts thinking about instituting better security measures to protect our children?
*Zaccheus* on 16/4/2007 at 21:56
Quote:
(
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/04/16/vtech.shooting/index.html)
Asked why the campus, which has more than 26,000 students, was not shut down after the first shooting, Flinchum responded that police received information that "it was an isolated event to that building and the decision was made not to cancel classes at that time."
Steger added, "We had some reason to believe the shooter had left campus."
Do those kinds of 'isolated events' happen from time to time ?
:erm:
Quote:
Another student, Tiffany Otey, said she and her classmates initially thought the gunshots were construction noise until they heard screaming and police officers with bulletproof vests and machine guns entered her classroom.
"They were telling us to put our hands above our head and
if we didn't cooperate and put our hands above our heads they would shoot ," Otey said. "I guess they were afraid, like us, like the shooter was going to be among one of us."
:wot:
